Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has followed up his critique of neoliberalism with a new essay in the Sydney Morning Herald on the causes of the crisis, and the policies needed after recovery.
With one exception, his key explanations for the crisis are the same as those identified by myself and the handful of other economists who predicted this crisis before it happened:
The roots of the crisis lie in the preceding decade of excess. In it the world enjoyed an extraordinary boom… However, as we later learnt, the global boom was built in large part on a three-layered house of cards.
First, in many Western countries the boom was created on a pile of debt held by consumers, corporations and some governments. As the global financier George Soros put it: “For 25 years [the West] has been consuming more than we have been producing … living beyond our means.”
In the United States, in particular, consumers went on a long, debt-fuelled shopping spree. Household debt rose from about 65 per cent of income in 1983 to nearly 140 per cent of income by 2007. The commentator Bill Gross summarised the US consumption boom as: “For too long it’s been McHouses, McHummers and McFlatscreens, all financed with excessive amounts of McCredit .. What a colossal McStake.”
Australian consumers also spent up big. Between 1996 and 2007 there was a 460 per cent increase in credit card debt, a 340 per cent increase in household debt, a 450 per cent increase in corporate debt and a 200 per cent increase in net foreign debt.
Second, these debts were racked up on the back of skyrocketing asset prices. In several countries, stock prices and house values soared far above their true long-term worth, creating paper wealth that millions of households used as collateral for their growing debts. The value of global financial assets grew from less than 45 per cent of global GDP in 2003 to nearly 490 per cent in 2007…
The finance sector, rather than servicing the needs of the real economy, began to primarily service itself.
The final layer of the house of cards was the huge volume of money funnelled from China, Japan and the Middle East to Western banks and governments. Cheap savings from the East flooded into the West to finance ballooning deficits. From 1999 to 2006 the US current account deficit more than tripled, from $US63.3 billion to $US214.8 billion, balanced by huge surpluses in other countries, especially China. (the emphases in these and subsequent quotes is my own)
The only element of that with which I disagree is the third point–which I’ll get back to later on.
Rudd also provides some interesting “insider’s” statistics on the size of the collective efforts taken by OECD governments to try to limit the scale of the crisis:
On the fiscal front, governments from the world’s largest 20 economies are expected to collectively pump about $US5 trillion into their economies by the end of next year (or nearly 8 per cent of global GDP since the crisis began). Altogether, the measures are the equivalent of an extraordinary and unprecedented 18 per cent of global GDP.
That’s an extraordinary injection–against which the scale of this crisis should be apparent. Inject an additional 18 per cent of activity into a global economic system over about 3 years, and yet the system still falls by about 6 per cent over that period? Without that intervention, output could have fallen by 25 per cent over 3 years, which is a Depression in anyone’s language.
Where I differ again with the Prime Minister is over whether this government stimulus alone is sufficient to avoid a Depression. Though his case is far more nuanced than most, the “green shoots” phrase nonetheless gets an airing:
We have already begun to see the results. Early signs of “green shoots” have emerged in recent economic data. And this month the International Monetary Fund revised up its forecast for the global recovery, from 1.9 per cent to 2.5 per cent growth next year. An IMF report this month noted “the world economy is stabilising, helped by unprecedented macro-economic and financial policy support”. The truth, however, is the world is still a long way from recovery.
The extent to which Rudd is “levelling” with his audience is also quite welcome:
The average budget deficit for OECD economies increased more than sixfold, from 1.4 per cent of GDP before the crisis in 2007 to 8.8 per cent of GDP in 2010. Public borrowing is required to finance these deficits and is expected to increase from 73.5 per cent of GDP in 2007 to 100.2 per cent in 2010. Among the big advanced economies, net debt will increase from 52 per cent of GDP in 2007 to 79 per cent in 2010.
Australia’s deficit and debt position have inevitably been affected, albeit much less than in other advanced economies. The combined effects of collapses in revenue ($210 billion) and policy interventions to support our economy ($77 billion) are expected to result in a deficit that peaks at 4.9 per cent of GDP in 2009-10. Net public debt is expected to rise to 4.6 per cent of GDP this financial year and peak at 13.8 per cent of GDP in 2013-14. Both are the lowest by an order of magnitude of all major advanced economies.
Clearly, government global action has come at a cost. But as the IMF argued earlier this year: “While the fiscal cost for some countries will be large in the short run, the alternative of providing no fiscal stimulus or financial sector support would be extremely costly in terms of the lost output.”
Without government intervention, global growth, global unemployment and prospects of global financial recovery would be much, much worse.
We never got to see whether Howard or Costello would have provided a reasoned explanation of policies in the light of an economic catastrophe, because they never experienced one–instead, they were amongst the lucky incumbents who held office while the global financial excess that caused this crisis held aloft the illusion of prosperity, and lost office before The Piper called to collect on The Tune.
Had they held on to power, I have no doubt that they would have–by force of necessity–been undertaking very similar fiscal policies to those Rudd now is (though the additional expenditure may have gone on the military and border patrols rather than ports and schools). Whether they would have presented as reasoned an explanation for their actions I think would have been less likely.
Rudd also revisits the anti-neoliberalism theme of his previous essay:
As I have argued elsewhere, the boom-and-bust economic cycle of the past decade has been an unavoidable consequence of a decade of neo-liberal free market fundamentalism that reinforced a culture of corporate greed and excess in the financial sector. The central principles of this extreme form of capitalism are that markets are self-regulating; that government should get out of the road of the market altogether and that the state itself should retreat to its core historical function of security at home and abroad.
As someone who has long argued that the economic theory that underlies neoliberalism (Neoclassical Economics) is intellectual drivel, I of course support this critique.
Where I beg to differ is Rudd’s dating of this–merely the last decade? We’ve been following Neoclassical-Economics-inspired policies ever since 1975, including under the preceding Australian Labor Party government of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating (or since 1973 if we include Whitlam’s 25% overnight cut in tariffs). And of course, the last decade wasn’t one of boom and bust around the globe, which was partly the problem: the mild US downturn after the 2000 Stock Market Crash occurred because the huge runup of private debt-financed spending that was the Subprime Crisis overwhelmed the negatives of the DotCom swindle, and of course set us up for the far bigger crash we are now experiencing.
The absence of economic downturns since 1993–and the mildness of the mainly US recession after the DotCom Bubble burst–played a large role into deluding neoclasssical economists like Bernanke into believing that they had tamed the trade cycle in what they termed “The Great Moderation”:
… the low-inflation era of the past two decades has seen not only significant improvements in economic growth and productivity but also a marked reduction in economic volatility…, a phenomenon that has been dubbed “the Great Moderation.” Recessions have become less frequent and milder, and … volatility in output and employment has declined significantly… The sources of the Great Moderation remain somewhat controversial, but … there is evidence for the view that improved control of inflation has contributed in important measure to this welcome change in the economy … (Bernanke, 2004)
Bollocks to all that. The prediction I made in 1995 in my paper “Finance and Economic Breakdown: Modelling Minsky’s Financial Instability Hypothesis” has stood the test of time rather better:
From the perspective of economic theory and policy, this vision of a capitalist economy with finance requires us to go beyond that habit of mind which Keynes described so well, the excessive reliance on the (stable) recent past as a guide to the future. The chaotic dynamics explored in this paper should warn us against accepting a period of relative tranquility in a capitalist economy as anything other than a lull before the storm. (Keen, 1995)
A Nascent Recovery?
Like most global leaders, Rudd is now speaking as if recovery has already begun. But to give him his due, even here there is a word of caution:
The first phase of Australia’s response to the global crisis has legitimately focused on crisis management, emergency interventions and implementing a strategy for recovery. But we must now deal with two challenges that arise in the context of a possible recovery.
There is also welcome realism that a debt-financed recovery is barely possible and certainly undesirable, and an awareness that deleveraging and deflation are the major risks facing the global economy.
This crisis has shown we have reached the limits of a purely debt-fuelled global growth strategy. Not only will the neo-liberal model of the past not provide growth for the future, its after-effects will make recovery more difficult. Mountains of global public and private debt, global imbalances, and a weakened global financial system will drag on global growth for a long time. As the renowned financial columnist Martin Wolf has written: “Those who expect a swift return to the business-as-usual of 2006 are fantasists. A slow and difficult recovery, dominated by de-leveraging and deflationary risks, is the most likely prospect.”
Since Rudd has properly entertained the prospect that the next decade will be dominated by deleveraging rather than rising debt levels, let’s get a handle on what that might mean for aggregate demand over that decade.
Australia has experienced two previous bouts of deleveraging, in the Depressions of the 1890s and 1930s. In both those previous Depressions, deflation and falling real output drove the debt to GDP ratio higher after the onset of the crisis–something we have yet to experience–after which the painful process of deleveraging began.
In the 1890s, we began with a debt to GDP ratio of just over 100 per cent, which then fell to a low of roughly 40 per cent over a 15 year period. In the 1930s, we started with a lower level of 75 per cent, which fell over a similar period to a low of 25 per cent–but the Second World War clearly accelerated the deleveraging process, which prior to then was running more slowly than after the 1890s Depression.
In the Figure above, these historical episodes are fitted by an exponential decay process. The rate of decay in the 1890s was roughly 4% per year; it began at roughly 3% in the 1930s prior to the War, but over the entire period including the War it fell at an average rate of 8% a year.
There was no policy intervention to accelerate economic recovery in the 1890s, so 4% might be taken to be the endogenous capacity of a Depressed economy to de-lever, whereas 8% can be regarded as a policy-accelerated rate (where however that “policy” was an arms race during a global military conflict). Both these rates are considered as hypotheticals for reduction of our debt levels today.
Taking 50% of GDP as a level at which normal economic activity might resume (higher than the 40% level that applied in the 1920s and 25% level of the 40s-60s), this implies that deleveraging could take anywhere between 15 years (at the accelerated 8% rate) and 30 years (at the “natural maximum” 4% rate).
We can get a preliminary handle on what this might mean for economic growth by calculating the percentage of GDP represented by each year’s deleveraging–effectively by converting the percentage reduction in debt each year into a fraction of GDP for that same year (this ignores feedbacks between the rate of change of debt and GDP itself, but it will do as a first pass). In the first year (2009) when debt started at 165% of GDP, a 4% reduction in debt levels is equivalent to a 6% reduction in GDP; the size of this hit then falls as the debt to GDP ratio itself falls.
The following chart shows each year’s deleveraging as a percentage of GDP, at the rates of 4% and 8% per year:
We are currently deleveraging at the 4% rate, and debt has fallen from 165% of GDP in March 2008 to 159% today–a 6% fall as a percentage of GDP, as noted above. At this rate, debt will not fall below 50% of GDP until 2038, and the annual reduction in debt will be equivalent to 3% of GDP until 2028.
To compare this to what happened during the 30s and 40s, the next Figure shows the impact of deleveraging in the 1930s: the actual 3% rate that applied from 1932 till 1939, what a “natural maximum” rate of a 4% fall per year would have meant as a percentage of GDP, and how bad things might have been without a World War if the achieved rate for 1932-45 of an 8% reduction had come via reducing debt rather than increasing GDP via a huge militarisation effort.
Even the worst rate of 1930s deleveraging (including WWII) only just compares to the impact of deleveraging today at the 4% rate–because the debt ratio in 2008 peaked at 2.2 times the peak level in the 1930s. And throughout the 1930s, deleveraging never subtracted more than 3% from GDP–again because debt was so much lower then than it is now.
While Rudd is therefore aware that deleveraging will probably be the defining economic experience of the next decade, I doubt that he is aware of the scale of its potential impact. Though Treasury–if it has had any input into Rudd’s paper–seems more aware of the dangers of deleveraging than the RBA, deleveraging is surely not factored into Treasury’s economic modelling of the post-crisis recovery scenarios on which some of Rudd’s budget predictions are based. These presume a return to real economic growth of 3%+ by 2010, which imply a capacity for the economy to grow at upwards of 7% per annum in real terms, to counteract deleveraging subtracting more than 5% from GDP every year till 2015.
If we rely upon the “natural maximum” process of deleveraging, we face a 30 year period in which changes in debt will cut at least 3% from the growth potential of the economy
This is why I propose a far more radical policy to deal with the crisis than the government stimulus package that Australia and other OECD nations have followed to date. These policies are attempting to address a crisis caused by irresponsible private lending, yet they involve continuing to respect this debt. They attempt to counteract private deleveraging by running up public debt instead. And they drastically underestimate the impact of deleveraging: rather than achieving a return to growth by 2010, these policies alone are likely to result in zero or sub-zero growth for most of the next decade.
That private debt does not deserve respect. It was irresponsibly lent in the first place, and the financial institutions that lent it should pay the price–not the public nor the public purse–via deliberate debt reduction. This of course would bankrupt those financial institutions, but as should be obvious from the US experience, these institutions are effectively bankrupt already.
A Copernican Switch on Savings
I noted above that the one aspect of Rudd’s analysis of the crisis that I disagreed with was the proposition that:
The final layer of the house of cards was the huge volume of money funnelled from China, Japan and the Middle East to Western banks and governments. Cheap savings from the East flooded into the West to finance ballooning deficits.
This is the “Savings cause Loans” perspective of the conventional model of money. As I explained in The Roving Cavaliers of Credit, this model is rather like the pre-Copernican view that the Sun orbits the Earth: it’s easy to understand (we still speak of “sunrise” and “sunset” after all) and also completely wrong. Just as the Earth orbits the Sun, “Loans cause Savings”.
The “excess savings” of the East were thus caused by the excess borrowing of the West. Chinese, Japanese and Middle Eastern accounts accumulated money because Western consumers and firms borrowed up big, and spent that borrowed money buying goods produced in China, Japan and the Middle East. Now that the borrowing binge in the West has come to an end, those “excess savings” in the East should start to diminish.
Conclusion
Rudd’s essay shows a stronger appreciation of the causes of this crisis, and the fragility of the economy in its wake, than I’ve yet seen from any other official source (with the sole exception of the Bank of International Settlements, where Bill White’s influence appears to remain, even though he is no longer its Economic Adviser–check this story on Bill and his forlorn attempts to raise the alarm during the Bubble).
Its one weakness is continued reliance upon neoclassical economic models to predict the future course of the economy after this crisis–when those same models ignore the role of private debt (which caused the bubble in the first place) and deleveraging (which will in fact drive the future course of the economy).
We can expect Rudd and Swann to continue with a large scale fiscal stimulus, in the hope that this will end the crisis. The next stage will come when this stimulus fails to achieve the level of growth predicted by neoclassical economic models, and as a result unemployment exceeds forecasts, public debt continues to run up, and deficit reduction strategies get pushed back in time.
So though Rudd is aware of the problem of deleveraging, he hasn’t yet taken developed policies that directly tackle it. But awareness of the problem is a necessary first step in addressing it, and Rudd has taken that first step.
PS Gittins on the Boil
Ros Gittins wrote a far less flattering review of Rudd’s essay in this morning’s SMH (Rudd’s new bogy: fearing the pain of recovery, SMH July 27 2009).
There were a few elements of his argument I agreed with, but most of it I reject. The points he made that I agree with include:
- That Rudd’s definition of neoliberalism is bogus–or at least incomplete. As Gittins puts it:
“The notion that the Libs could be fairly described as “neo-liberal free-market fundamentalists” is laughable.
And yet Rudd boasts about the success of the Hawke-Keating government’s micro-economic reforms and promises more reforms of his own.
Micro-economic reform and neo-liberal mean the same thing. As an ideological warrior, this guy’s a phoney.”
True–as I noted above:
We’ve been following Neoclassical-Economics-inspired policies ever since 1975, including under the preceding Australian Labor Party government of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating (or since 1973 if we include Whitlam’s 25% overnight cut in tariffs).
- The false claim that our national balance sheet is healthy:
“He boasts his intention is to maintain Australia’s position as having “the best national balance sheet of the major advanced economies” (I didn’t know we were a major economy). Really? With a net foreign debt equivalent to 56 per cent of gross domestic product?”
True again. But Gittins himself has rarely (once from memory–see below) acknowledged the parlous state of private debt in general in this economy. Rudd’s essay did discuss that, and he drew the implication of the danger of deleveraging as well, which applies to all debt, whether owed domestically or overseas.
- And finally, the fact that most of Rudd’s reform agenda is no different to anything else proposed at any time in the last two decades–in other words that it’s still reading from the neoliberal script, which of course is written by neoclassical economists:
“First is regulation and competition reform… Next is infrastructure (nothing new here), innovation (the national broadband network “will arguably be the single greatest multiplier of productivity growth”; I certainly hope it isn’t the best we can do), skills (nothing new) and tax reform (waiting for the Henry report). Then comes the “broader reform agenda”: retirement income policy (waiting for Henry), health and ageing (may do something in response to the imminent report) and climate change and water (nothing new).”
But that’s about it. Otherwise
- Rudd had an accurate analysis of what caused the crisis, on which Gittins had no comment; and
- Based on this analysis, Rudd warned of the dangers ahead in deleveraging and deflation, while Gittins seems to have bought the “it’ll all be over by Christmas” sentiment. For instance:
“Rudd fails to explain just why it will be so tough to get the budget back to surplus. It shouldn’t be, when you remember that all the official stimulus spending is once-off and the budget’s “automatic stabilisers” will eventually bring back the revenue they took away.”
and…
“I’m starting to see the motive for all this talk about tough times ahead: you make it sound terrible so that when it turns out it isn’t so bad, voters are more relieved than angry. It’s spin, in other words.”
Yes there was certainly some spin there. But there was also a better appreciation of what caused this crisis than I’d previously seen from an international leader. In practice, Rudd may well have set the grounds for what is needed politically if, as I expect, things turn out to be a lot worse than most neoclassical economists and commentators like Gittins expect.
Anyone who read Gittins’s diatribe before reading Rudd’s essay would probably conclude that it wasn’t worth the effort to do so anyway. That would be a mistake. It’s rare that a major essay in a newspaper actually (a) identifies the cause of this crisis and (b) notes the dangers that lie ahead. The former has happened only once, so far as I can recollect in any of Gittins’s own columns (“It’s not inflation that did us in, it’s the borrowing“, SMH 08/12/2008–see my blog entry on this “Ross Gittins finally comes aboard“), the latter, never.
On that point alone, reading Rudd’s essay is a far more rewarding activity than reading Gittins’s critique.







July 27th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Congratulations Dr Keen on the prime minister’s agreement!! finally the mass media will have ‘egg on their faces’!!In light of this ‘revelation’ from the p.m.it will be interesting to see the ‘floggers’ views ‘going forward! and of the ‘green shoots’scenario!
I am also sceptical of the p.m’s timing (yes political one up manship on opposition) in view of increasing unemployment when ALL the govt. stimulus has now finished(and finishing FHOG)and we fly solo as it were with reduced foreign income as explained on this site!
Another question, does anyone here believe that possibly the p.m. has had a ‘briefing’ on what may be coming?? silly me! congrats again Dr Keen!!
July 27th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Steve,
Lots of interesting material there! A few observations:
1. Savings may not cause loans but surely you agree they affect the interest rates available? Would the cheap credit have even been possible otherwise? If so, then it seems to me asian deferral of consumption did have a role to play in this mess.
2. You advocate jubilee, but presumably that is just for Oz? If the banks responsible go BK, what then of protection for savings deposits in those banks, and their foreign liabilities – won’t the public purse have to cover these? Is this a realistic possibility, and what effect would it have on future interest rates and credit availability? What if all affected nations everywhere did it?
3. Looking deeper, why the need for debt fuelled consumption in the first place anyway? Why couldn’t the asians consume their own output? Fear of goods?
Isn’t it the old marxian trope of capital accumulation and the tendency for the rate of profit to fall combined with deteriorating demographics that’s driving the ongoing economic deterioration since the late 60s?
If not then I think we need some other explaination for why for example, we left the gold standard in the first place, and then for why sufficient western consumer demand could only exist when funded by debt.
Unless we’re armed with some theories here, even your conservative estimate for how long deleveraging could take may be completely wrong if all the while the deleveraging is taking place, demand is being further destroyed by the issues that caused it in the first place, still neither being addressed nor understood. This latter point is what worries me most – if we’re ever to recover from this mess, we’d better have a damn good idea what sort of world we’re recovering towards.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Steve, you know I love your work, I really do… but really, agreeing with the Prime Minister when he says:
“As I have argued elsewhere, the boom-and-bust economic cycle of the past decade has been an unavoidable consequence of a decade of neo-liberal free market fundamentalism that reinforced a culture of corporate greed and excess in the financial sector. The central principles of this extreme form of capitalism are that markets are self-regulating; that government should get out of the road of the market altogether and that the state itself should retreat to its core historical function of security at home and abroad.”
Now if you want to keep a central bank which permits the unlimited creation of credit, and fractional reserve banking which is the engine of loaning money into existence… then maybe I can see why the PM would make such a fallacious and caveman conclusion.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Just a quick follow up to qualify my ‘caveman’ critique of the PM’s conclusion… to criticize free market capitalism and spin massive government intervention while ignoring that you have an institution that is not born of the free market and a banking system that loans money into existence (i.e. FRB) is a massive intellectual omission.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:24 am
One more thing related to my questions above.
The link below shows how simple CD accounts in the US have outperformed equities between 1994 and 2008.
http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2009/07/20/investment-performance-cds-vs-stocks/
The thing I’m struggling with is that if there is any sense in our economy at all, then a long term equity index investment should outpeform a CD due to the higher risk involved, otherwise what’s the point of equities?
Surely from this we either have to conclude that the cost of capital has been too high, or that equities are undervalued (both of which amount to the same thing really). You might suggest in return that the money was badly invested, but the bad outcome could just as easily have been due to a cost of capital sufficiently high vis-a-vis real earning potential to guarantee a bad outcome.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:31 am
drwasho, I don’t know why people keep asking these questions. I’m sure steve has answered them in the past. Without fractional reserve banking there would be no lending, because:
1. typical capital assets (in normal financial times) will yield about 1% after costs (i.e. general operating costs and the paying of depositors their interest, plus defaults). Don’t forget that a proper bank (i.e not goldman) makes money on the spread of deposit and loan rates).
2. because of the low yield an intermediary needs to lend out each $ of deposit several times over to have a viable business.
3. without financial intermediaries there is not going to be any lending. We don’t and never will have a barter economy unless and until we’re all living in mud huts again.
4. intermediaries have to be trusted to be effective and given the scale of the global economy they therefore need access to guarantees provided by a bank-of-last resort, preferably one that can print money or tax people, otherwise no-one would deposit a dime. Free banking in early 19th century USA did not have a good reputation.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Main problem with Rudd’s essay is that the rhetoric doesn’t match the policies. Rudd is a disciple of Tony Blair and will turn this sort of rubbish out until everyone realises the hypocrisy. Seems to have broken both the UK economy and the British labour party.
First, while we are told that debt is wrong what is the solution: more debt. Government intervention to encourage debt, especially for housing is still happening. In a addition to first home owners there are various schemes to encourage investment in affordable housing. Not to mention the government debt.
Secondly, there seems to be no recognition that the increased debt flows through to increased affluence, allowing us to purchase lots of foreign made goods. Apparently nation building doesn’t include building factories of our own. We’re going to do it all based on more school halls. At least they are not made in China.
Thirdly, I can’t remember how many times that we were told by Beasley etc that Labor would have turned the economy around with public spending. Stick that on top of what was already there and the result is massive public debt, as well as private. Think UK. When does our public deficit end ? When teh private sector starts borrowing ridiculuous amounts of money again.
There are probably other things.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:39 am
[...] Read more: Rudd’s essay is on the money [...]
July 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am
“drwasho, I don’t know why people keep asking these questions. I’m sure steve has answered them in the past. Without fractional reserve banking there would be no lending…”
Yes… there was no lending prior to the early 19th century, ever.
I have some recommended reading material:
http://mises.org/story/1829
http://mises.org/mysteryofbanking/mysteryofbanking.pdf
July 27th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
DrWasho, I hope you’ve read my Roving Cavaliers of Credit post where I explain that fractional reserve banking is not merely not the problem, but not the system in which we live. Credit creation is largely independent of government creation of fiat money, and the former follows the latter, rather than preceding it.
The point on which I am now in agreement with Austrian economists is that the Central Bank has done more harm than good–not through the credit creation process itself, which proceeds independently of their actions, but in their rescues of this system from its own innate instabilities. This has led to the system accumulating twice as much debt as it would have done so without Greenspan’s “rescues”. With that large an increase in debt, we go through one of Marx’s “quantitative change becomes qualitative change” points so that what might have worked as a rescue in the past–government deficit spending–won’t work this time.
However I was willing to let many issues “pass through to the keeper” (to use a cricket analogy) because the main thing I favoured in Rudd’s essay was acknowledgement of the main cause (a private debt financed Ponzi bubble) and the main symptoms of its unwinding (deleverage and deflation).
July 27th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Steve, nice to see there has been some changes from the PM about the cause, A little recognition for yourself and others who have been saying this all along. (don’t hold your breath though)would be good to. I think you said months ago that things will have to get much worse before any of them think of adapting your more radical approach but I think you’re right it’s the only solution.
The green shoots seem to be disappearing in the UK as this article outlines.
Business leaders fear new recession
Independent poll reveals fresh pessimism at prospects for economy
The number of business leaders detecting the green shoots of an economic recovery has fallen for the first time since April, raising fears that the country is heading for a “double-dip” recession, research carried out for The Independent has found.
The renewed gloom in industry – revealed in a survey of senior business people – comes after months of cautious optimism that Britain could soon be past the worst of the downturn.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/business-leaders-fear-new-recession-1762047.html
July 27th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Thanks once again for a great analysis Steve.
I don’t think that, politically, Rudd can avoid more and higher levels of deficit spending. As you graphically point out, the GFC and it’s deleveraging will be with us for some time and I don’t see Rudd allowing our economy to wither any where near the point of it being politically damaging. After a good dose of luck, his only tool to prevent that will be MORE debt. Folks, get used to it- along with below average to negative economic growth ahead of us will be much more national debt and with it much higher taxes. That will be the formula until something breaks, which will then usher in our next crisis- a bond and currency crisis.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Hey Steve,
Yes I’ve read your article and I acknowledge that many Austrian schoolers like myself neglect to emphasize that the private sector is responsible for the bulk of the credit/money creation via the fractional reserve banking system (M2 preceding M0 etc)… which is why I refer to FRB as the engine of inflation as opposed to the central bank that permits it’s continuance via the discount window. Though the central bank does indirectly expand the money supply through the Soviet style decrees of interest rates and market money operations.
In two books: 1) ‘Mystery of Banking’ by Rothbard & 2) Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles by Jesus Huerta de Soto, there are very good cases to demonstrate that fractional reserve banking is fraudulent in the way it is presently conducted, unsustainable and obviously inflationary… yet at the same time, it offers alternative banking and credit models that don’t involve fiat credit creation. I recommend them to anyone who wants to hear the ’so what’s your idea’ argument.
“However I was willing to let many issues “pass through to the keeper” (to use a cricket analogy) because the main thing I favoured in Rudd’s essay was acknowledgement of the main cause (a private debt financed Ponzi bubble) and the main symptoms of its unwinding (deleverage and deflation).”
Yes, admittedly its a big step for our beloved Prime Minister… I shouldn’t expect him to publish a second edition of The Wealth of Nations anytime soon though.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
‘That private debt does not deserve respect’
Steve – if we forgive all the private debt then won’t that reward all the people who got into ridiculous levels of debt and punish the savers who have opted to rent until they can afford their residence?
The people in debt will keep their palatial homes and the savers will keep their rented units?!
Wouldn’t Chine get *really* annoyed if we decided to default on our debt?
July 27th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
DrBob127,
From the previous thread;
I think Clive and Lyonwiss covered well the responses that I would offer. Steve above also outlines the macro environment for economic growth or lack thereof that limit’s the scope of an earnings recovery.
However, in the scenario your Dad indicated, I would say that most corporations are now learning to deal with massive overcapacity to service their rapidly shrinking demand/sales base. Witness the shedding of labour and bankruptcies still strongly underway in the US. In that paradigm, ANY servicing of debt is a parlous state simply because the real bottom in demand (revenues) is falling away as jobs perish. In your Dad’s example, some assumptions I don’t buy into as they apply to the S&P500 , the subject of the chart;
- How many corporations would you believe are still in a “strong position” having seen their sales decimated?
- In a declining revenue environment, the cost of debt servicing (at undoubtedly higher than previous rates) rises thus imposing both other operational cuts (jobs) or discounting just to maintain sufficient cash flow. With most other Corps doing just the same, profits decline along with the customer demand base.
- If the original loan was to boost production, then that (and your competitors)added capacity is now partially/significantly idle.Ability to raise prices in future in an overcapacity world don’t exist. So a return to anything approaching normal revenues will also not materialize impairing all future bottom line results. Possibly worse, you will be priced out of business now in a mad scramble for market share. Mass casualties are and will continue to occur in this environment.
The chart in itself can be interpreted in many ways, I grant you. But , when comparing stock prices today, with any interpretation of the earnings chart and likely forward expectations , indicates to me that there is a gulf of disparity present.
Either earnings expectations are quite right (I must be missing something VERY BIG on the revenue side), or, they are dead / hopelessly wrong. Steve’s analysis , others and my own take on them leads me to believe earnings expectations (P/E’s) are ludicrous.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
What would happen to all my savings in the banks that are going to be allowed to fail?
ie: – Steve – do you keep the money from your unit sale in a bank?
If the answer is ‘bullion under the mattress’ perhaps you better say ‘no comment’ lest people find out where you live
July 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Why can’t people who have taken on too much debt be punished?
Whats wrong with that?
My Godfather was a multi millionaire -he had a mansion next to L. Fox in Toorak….olympic size pool etc….all the trappings….
He bought alot of real estate in sth melbourne – via debt.
interest rates went to 20% and he went broke.
he now rents a house….big deal…people go broke all the time …..its a life lesson that needs to be taught….
i say punish them and reward savers.
July 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I’m in favour of bank deposits being 100% guaranteed Metadebt, as they are now after the crisis. You can abolish (a large percentage of) the debt without affecting deposits at all, which in a notional sense is a large shift to a fiat money system from a credit one gone bad.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Steve
Why not devalue the AUD and let the entire population tackle the problem NOW rather than continually defering it and letting the problem get bigger. The present solution only benefits the bankster class and likely it will end up being the consultants at the IMF at the expense of the real economy.
Why not enmass lower our standard of living via a currency decline to a level supported by our real incomes and not our illusory debt financed asset wealth.
We should devalue the AUD and generate trade surpluses to pay our way…
Australia should be quickly aiming to earn more than we spend for once in several decades.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
My greatest disagreement – and annoyance – with Rudd’s essays is this posturing that the conservatives were the bastion of “free markets” and that has caused the GFC. Get me a bucket! The greatest bubbles that we have experienced have been in our housing markets, and they have been anything but free for a long time – under Labor or the conservatives. What we really have is markets that have been managed to produce an outcome that is politically palatable – increasing prices – and Mr Rudd is lining up to be the most active house price “manager” of all time!
Mr Rudd conveniently discussed housing prices only in relation to the “several countries” in which “… house values soared far above their true long-term worth”.
But I think the article is actually very suggestive that Mr Rudd does categorise us in those “several countries”. He talks about our massive run-up in personal debt in Australia (yes, like it only occurred under the Howard Government) – but conveniently neglects to point out that a very large proportion of that debt funded our own housing ponzi (or to fund wasteful consumption from that “paper wealth” delivered by the housing ponzi.)
Makes you wonder why he has encouraged so many young Aussies into our very mature ponzi? Did he really think it was the right course of action – to add to the “mountains” of private debt (that he went some length in underlining that we also have) – even though he foresees a very long and painful rebalancing ahead? That certainly is going to represent a significant impediment to his chances of re-election for a third term. Perhaps he had little choice but to repay some political favours?
Then again, perhaps he does read Debtdeflation???
Either way, there is no doubt that these essays show a good deal of his own “ideological hypocrisy” and it will be interesting to see whether he has the leadership qualities to get our society and economy heading in the right direction.
July 27th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
[...] This post was Twitted by WGIVISION [...]
July 27th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Steve, I am going to read this a few times. Money is clearly loaned into existance and the Asian boom was clearly created out of US home equity along with some other international housing bubbles. It appears the governments and finance ministers of the world continually attempt to hide how banking works and that banking created this mess. The Chinese are poor on a relative sense and I doubt could never save that much money, but a system of confiscation of international currency and a replacement of domestic currency could very well allow a society to spend all it made domestically and internationally be big savers.
What is clear to those of us that have a clue as to how to solve this problem is that institutions and depositors are going to have to take a haircut. The current attempt is to replace the shrinking money with public debt and that won’t solve the debt problem. Neither will wasting precious resources in what they call stimulus.
I believe the old time liquidation worked well. Short term chaos was replaced by a clearing out of the debt in the market. Sure people went broke, but the money remained while the debt was wiped out. There is a delusion in modern finance that the only way to expand is to spend money you don’t have. In this matter, it is clear that for there to be any long term solution, there would have to be a new method of having money, lending money and creating money other than at interest. Of course, this would tie the hands of government and remove the money creation mechanism from those that rule government behind the scenes.
Depression is one of the hardest things to understand, other than the fact that banking economies are married to expanding levels of debt to the point that debt can no longer expand and be rational or real. This is really a bag passing enterprise and those at the end of the line are now holding the bag.
The biggest danger is how do we give the needed haircut and not wipe out the savings of pensioners around the world? Social Security here in the states is busted and was the last response to this problem. I don’t believe it is a good idea to saddle the world with another passed bag. I think the world may need to learn to see beyond dollar signs and see product sold and bought in other terms.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
[...] Leave a Comment I found it pretty readable. I’d invite everyone to read it. Steve Keen approves of it, although Ross Gittens doesn’t (SMH Monday 27/7) (I trust Steve Keen [...]
July 27th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Steve, good piece and, as you say, in the circumstances it seems reasonable to let quite a few things go through to the keeper.
Like some others here, I’m a bit uncomfortable with two things:
1. It’s not clear to me how, in practical terms, you’d recommend getting rid of the “irresponsible” private debt. Given that in your second comment you talk about “abolish[ing] (a large percentage of) the debt”, I imagine you have something fairly radical in mind.
While I agree that deleveraging is essential (and indeed unavoidable), the manner in which it’s done is surely critically important. Wherever possible, I’d have thought standard legal and market processes should be allowed to do the job. Thus, for example, most if not all financial system insolvency problems (together with a decent chunk of overindebtedness) could be dealt with through the conversion of unsecured (and in exceptional cases some secured) debt to equity. This needn’t involve much in the way of coercion but could instead flow from a quasi (or literal) bankruptcy process.
In any case, I’d be interested in some elaboration from you on this point.
2. Like you, I never bought the “excess savings” hypothesis as the primary cause. Still, as scepticus noted, the Chinese in particular were hardly passive bystanders. They drove an aggressively mercantilist policy hard (and still do) and America’s debt fuelled consumer binge would have ended long before had they not done so.
Come to think of it, there’s one other thing (this one emerges from your first comment).
You say that fractional reserve banking “is not merely not the problem, but not the system in which we live”. Given that I don’t see how it can be claimed that our banking system doesn’t operate on a fractional reserve basis, I assume this must be a semantic, definitional issue (perhaps you’re thinking of earlier periods when central banks actively used reserve requirements as a tool).
On your larger point about credit creation, I agree that the financial system itself tends to lead the central banks, but (in addition to those innumerable rescues you mention) CBs do contribute to the process simply by “validating” credit growth via progressive additions to the monetary base.
July 27th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Hi InGolf,
On the fractional reserve system, the normal model of this–the “money multiplier”–implies that credit can’t be created unless “seeded” by an initial drop of fiat money. In the Roving Cavaliers post (please read it if you haven’t already done so), I explain that this model doesn’t fit the empirical data, and that it is possible to have a pure credit economy without government money at all. So while there will be a statistical relationship between credit money and base money, it works in reverse to the standard theory.
If we rely on the usual market mechanisms to reduce debt, I honestly fear that we won’t have an economy by the end of it. Also, converting debt to equity would effectively allow the financial system to practice theft by debt–give people debt they can’t afford to service, and take over the assets afterward. Even if you did that, most of them would be bankrupt on their current asset holdings anyway, because the income stream from those assets wouldn’t maintain their current capital adequacy ratios. I’d rather send a message too that this level of financial irresponsibility will never be tolerated again.
Practically I expect that the debt to equity idea will be the one that is generally run with, combined with a politically appealing debt forgiveness for the poorest debtholders, when economic circumstances finally drive policy makers to unconventional actions.
July 27th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
hi peter w,
re the currency, i can see your point about this,
it would be a way to inflate our way out of a deflationary spiral, allthough i’m not sure what the employment consequences for retail and importing industries would be in the short to medium term under such a scenario.
i think you are going to get your wish anyway,
let me engage in a little wild speculation,
according to my reading of the tea leaves
the current weakness in the greenback i think is due to the relative strength in equities. this will soon change once the macro situation in the US changes, when everyone realises that the so called green shoots arent going to be self sustaining and are being propped up by alot of government and federal reserve fertilizer, or should that be manure.
adding fuel to the fire may be a scandel or two about the mismanagement of various bailouts.we can always rely on governments for a scandel or two when large sums of taxpayer money are given to people , some of whome quite frankly dont deserve it.
that should be enough to have everyone rushing for the door at the same time,
if the equities markets follow history then we are in for a large correction heading south, which by my reckoning will mean a significant devaluation in the oz dollar relative the greenback and probably the yen, probably below 50cents US in the medium term.
i could be wrong offcourse, and on this dung heap of debt beautiful roses will bloom
July 27th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
steve if you are in favour of bank deposits being 100% gauranteed by the government,
then why not go the extra step and change the laws which allow banks to committ regalised fraud by lending money which they do not have.
why not have 100% reserve banking!
i mean lets face it, regardless of their prudent lending policies , the very nature of a loan bank, is that it is always theoretically broke.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Steve, thanks for the quick reply. It looks like I didn’t explain myself well enough.
I have no problem with the idea of endogenous credit creation, and (as noted in my last paragraph) agree that the financial system itself tends to lead rather than follow. Absent central bank cooperation, (through relaxed reserve requirements, eventual monetary base additions etc), however, the process would quickly become much more difficult. And yes, I certainly agree that a pure free banking system (without government money or a central bank) can create plenty of credit. Still, without the various forms of systemic support, its capacity to expand is likely to be a good deal more limited than our Frankenstein version. By the way, I have read the Roving Cavaliers and thoroughly enjoyed it.
As for debt to equity conversions, I meant something very different to what you seem to have taken from my comments. What I was suggesting is that when a financial institution is no longer capable of surviving (as is) on its own, then some form of “bankruptcy” process should be used to convert some or all of its outstanding debt to equity. Like you, I think deposits should be excluded from this process and the conversion should proceed in accordance with the seniority of the debt.
This would “punish” more or less exactly the parties that you also think need to learn a hard lesson in the realities of risk v reward. It would also quickly (and potentially quite dramatically) reduce outstanding debt. An example of the sort of thing I have in mind is briefly laid out in this article by Prof Luigi Zingales:
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/1670
July 27th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Any debt-for-equity swap would result in a massive haircut for the bond-holders/savers getting the equity. So it could be characterised as theft, but it would be a very expensive form of theft for the thieves.
At some point the worlds bond holders and savers, who have built up unsustainable claims on future production are going to have to take it on the chin. There is simply no way to keep them whole and have the overall system remain solvent at the same time.
In a way this unavoidable consequence is a crystalisation of the real negative rates of interest that we’ve all been trying to pretend didn’t exist the last decade.
I also have a problem with full deposit insurance, since it makes what in theory should be a somewhat risky investment (leaving youer money in a bank to earn interest on it implies it has been lent out in whole or part) a risk free investment. If a 1.5% interest rate on savings is made risk free, then that pushes up the cost of real risk capital 1.5% above where it should be. Ultimately this will come to a sticky end, and society as a whole has to socialise losses to the deposit insurance fund to guarantee those savers their 1.5%. I simply cannot see how that is a fair outcome for society.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Mahaish,
As I understand it the 100% reserve ratio is an attempt to create the following situation:
1. A control or limit on money supply
2. Reserves and savings constraining investment (i.e. reserves and savings (or borrowing) are required before investment can occur.
Such an approach takes a narrow approach to money, that money is limited to commodity money and a medium of exchange. It ignores the historical emergence and evolution of money as a unit of account and a means of payment. The former is tied with credit money and money as a unit of account and is determined by economic conditions and cannot be constrained, and the latter by social influences.
These current arguments for 100% reserve requirement, mirrors those of the English Currency School and English Banking School. The former argued from the position that reserves make loans whilst the latter argued that loans make reserves. Such a fundamental difference is tied in with the school’s conceptions of what constitutes money. Most Post Keynesians and I believe Steve would side with the banking school and argue that is impossible to ever limit and control the money supply.
A simple example of endogenous money which by passes commodity money is explained by Randall Wray (1990, pp. 25-26) set in an Islamic society 8th century, where there are severe restrictions on loaning and issuing of interest. There a numerous currencies (government debt) which can be used as the medium of exchange but most are foreign. The economy is not a monetary one.
For example: If we imagine a situation between two persons. Person A being a customer, whilst person B a merchant. Person A wishes to purchase a commodity from person B but lacks the funds. Depending on their relations (i.e. trustworthiness), Person A will extend a debt contract with the promise to pay at a later date in a specified currency. The merchant would prefer that rather than being paid in a particular currency, which carries significant risks and cost, that person A accept person B’s debts to person C. The original debt between A and B is cleared by A accepting the debt between B and C. This practice was widespread throughout the time period as such financial and negotiable instruments such as Bills of Exchange and Tally sticks. These instruments first served as a unit of account and later developed as a means of exchange. The example ignores financial institutions which would arise due to such practices, such as clearing houses. But it illustrates how simple endogenous money and credit money arises within human society. It is not difficult to imagine from such a simple practice that there will be an increase in the money supply.
A bank’s primary function is the extension of its debts to customers who currently lack the purchasing power to either investment or consume a commodity. It can only function in a social milieu where consumption and investment are constrained by reserves or savings, and most importantly where its debts are accepted, as a means of payment.
In stating all this, if I have made any mistakes please point them out. I am still fairly new to this line of thought as going a few months back I would have agreed with the Currency School and the 100% reserve requirement.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Sorry for the double post. I forgot to include the source.
Wray, R. 1990. Money and Credit in capitalist economies. The endogenous money approach. Edward Elgar.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
height, excellent explaination of why exogenous commodity money would fail. When the money became scarce (and it would), people wishing to transact will simply work around teh lack of specie by using something else.
See http://www.bartercard.com as an example of the kind of system that will spring to life automatically when money becomes scarce, especially in the information age.
The money system, and ultimately our entire civilisation, which relies on debt as both a means of exchange, unit of account and critically, a store of wealth is all about making debt fungible.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
I would put the deleveraging process in the context of the modern political environment. We can imagine a free fall scenario in the UK – Tories winning the elections and imposing government spendings cut, all the “Polish plumbers” losing jobs and leaving the country, all the “Pakistani Taxi drivers” losing jobs as well and not leaving the country, etc… This scenario has been very successfully rehearsed by prof Leszek Balcerowicz (the former chairman of Polish Reserve Bank “NBP”) in the name of “inflation targeting” in Poland. Unemployment hit 20% what created a bit later the wave of “Polish plumbers” leaving the country. So if the British want to have another Margaret Thatcher who fixes everything with a sledgehammer, “yes they can”.
I cannot imagine Kevin Rudd throttling our economy in the same way in the name of “balancing the budget”, “protecting the retirement savings” and “avoiding inflation” though. By the way – the surest way to destroy the savings of the baby-boomers is to allow for an uncontrolled collapse of the real estate market as it happened in the US. I am really surprised that there are voices on this forum suggesting a wave of bankruptcies as the most natural and best solution to the debt bubble in the context of preserving the wealth of the retires.
The logic of the modern political life is that short term goals will almost always prevail. Facing “printing a bit” as prescribed here:
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=3756
or getting into the deflationary tailspin any responsible politician in Australia will break the rules of the neoclassical economics and print. This is not an issue of planning how to reduce the mountain of the private debt – this is an issue of running the country on empty when the income from taxes is greatly reduced and there is not enough demands for treasury bonds.
In this context I think Kevin Rudd mentioned inflation. In my opinion he is sober enough not to believe in the “green shoots” or “V – shaped global recovery”. But any significant amount of QE will lead to depreciation of the currency. I am sure Kevin will not be the first to print – he will simply follow the Americans and the others. As a side effect – this may fix the foreign trade balance and debt problems.
Politicians will always chose the least resistance path. Abolishing the debt is not one of them. Allowing for a free fall clearly isn’t the least resistance path in Australia but may be requested by the British electorate sick of the New Left and the hypocrisy of Tony Blair (Gordon Brown was unable to differentiate himself from his predecessor).
Printing money in Australia right now also isn’t the least resistance path. Now it’s time to borrow money by selling bonds to whoever still wants to buy them (especially in China) but QE is just around the corner.
Personally I think that inflation then is possible and it is not the problem but the solution.
I have a few questions to Steve (I am still quite far away from running any simulations on my own as I still don’t have enough knowledge)
1. Looking at the exponential decay graph – why should we assume that the debt will fall to 50% of the GDP? Our economy is different than in 1910. Even our life expectancy is different. What if by skilful manipulation the deleveraging process is stopped at 120% of GDP?
2. How will the graph look like if all (or 75%) of the amount of money previously created by credit in any given period of time is replaced initially by money obtained by bonds emission and later by QE? Clearly QE will lead to rising prices (by weakening the currency) but the physical output of the economy will not fall as much as if there was no stimulation. This will also save us from really high unemployment. This is what prof Mitchell has suggested and it might be quite close to what Kevin Rudd actually implements. I think this solution may work to some extent because all the economies in “real socialism” worked like that – money was not credit-based but created by the central bank instead. The system based on central planning was inefficient and corrupt but this could be still better than the “free-fall” deflationary scenario.
3. What is in your opinion the most likely “least resistance” path?
July 27th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
A question about our currency. A high proportion of inflow of funds (maybe 50%) into Australia is for public debt, mainly 10 year bonds. Now Australia pays a fairly high rate on these, which are then auctioned off at a higher rate to produce a yield higher than US or even UK bonds.
Now the question is: How much is this affecting our exchange rate ? By increasing the future return, we increase the amount that an investor is willing to pay for the bond, and that increases the demand for $AUD and also the amount people are prepared to pay, compared to what they feel is the true value of the $AUD. End result, currency rises. Not good in the long term.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
height said, in July 27th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Hello Height,
a 100% reserve system in a fiat money system is not at all a constraining to investment or saving.
http://www.jamesrobertson.com/book/creatingnewmoney.pdf (a e-book for free)
Paul
July 28th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Paul, I’ve read that book from james robertson and while I used to agree with your comments above, I no longer do.
There is no essential difference between a 100% reserve fiat system and a 100% reserve commodity money system.
There would be no lending under either, for the reasons outlined in posts by myself and others in this thread. It’s true that under the fiat system the money supply could be increased in line with economic growth, but otherwise it seems identical to a 100% reserve gold standard.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:36 am
Steve, nice post.
Rudd is a rather enigmatic leader – of the green shoots he partakes in a self-conscious puff but apparently does not inhale.
An interesting essay by Rudd. He tackles some of the issues head on, as Howard/Costello could never have done – as the Howard years were founded on living beyond our means. The aging population – at 25% of the population and holding the purse strings, the demented will soon be running the nursing home. It’s not going to be pretty.
This has to be one of the best opportunities yet to divine the future, because we are operating under so many constraints. What are the options? Which ones can we whittle down due to being impractical for various reasons? For a start, people will have to be employed doing something – the government can’t risk a revolution. If unemployment rises too high, work will be made for them somehow, and they will be fed.
Do you think your suggestion will ever happen, Steve? Do you think it is politically feasible? It would be nice to see it fleshed out a bit more.
Time for bed, will comment/analyze more later.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:41 am
>>>>”… excellent explaination of why exogenous commodity money would fail. When the money became scarce (and it would), people wishing to transact will simply work around teh lack of specie by using something else.”
Not necessarily… as most things, if a commodity becomes scarce the value increases. Commodity money is the most enduring form of currency in human history and has a better record than fiat money by a country mile.
>>>>”There is no essential difference between a 100% reserve fiat system and a 100% reserve commodity money system. There would be no lending under either, for the reasons outlined in posts by myself and others in this thread…”
Again history contradicts this notion that no lending would occur under a 100% banking system. I’ve already made references above to 2 books to thoroughly discuss these issues, one by Rothbard and the other by de Soto. These books explain at length the current banking system and proposes a viable alternative banking model (transitions included).
July 28th, 2009 at 1:59 am
I was quite impressed with Kevin Rudd’s essay in the SMH. However, I am more interested in his policy responses. I have been quite dissapointed with the policy initiatives, announced to date. The tax bonus was a largely wasteful execise that provided a temporary filip to consumption growth but that enlarged debt. It would have been far better to have directed resources towards major national infrastructure projects. The same can be said for the reduction in Activity statement instalments implmented late last year and the extended First Home Buyers Grant. It was suggested that the policy would benefit 1.2 million businesses but less that 400,000 have benefitted in part because the ASI system provides ample opportunity for businesses to lower their intalment payments as their income reduces. Frankly I’m awaiting the outcome of the fundamental review of our tax system to see whether the government removes the outrageous negative gearing deduction which provides incentives for speculator to price “working families out of the home market” and makes possible tax avoidance by higher income groups. Personally I doubt that we will see deflation for goods or services although I believe that we will see tremendous asset deflation, and I say bring it on.
July 28th, 2009 at 2:43 am
This link sums up some critical issues that have been, and continue to be, glossed over with regard to long term debt build up in the economy.
http://www.interfluidity.com/posts/1218054521.shtml
“Finance is not a closed system, a zoology of exotic contracts and rocket scientist equations. The job of a financial system is to make real-world decisions, “What should we do?” A good investment is a simple answer to that question, with clear consequences for getting it right or wrong. Mom and Pop can have FDIC insured bank accounts, and imagine that there is such thing as a “risk-free return”. But that’s a lie, a sugarcoated subsidy. Foregone consumption does not automatically convert itself into future abundance. People have to make smart decisions about what to do with today’s capital. If they don’t, no amount of regulation or insurance will prevent all those savings accounts from going worthless.”
An FDIC insured bank account paying anything significantly above 0% constitutes a risk free arbitrage that is bound to inject unwanted debt into the economy when you stop and think about it. I’d have no problem in insuring 0% interest current accounts or accounts which are taxed to 0% yield, but to insure someone’s money rental income seems highly immoral to me. I see no reason why savers hould be treated in this preferential manner.
July 28th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Add me to the list of folks disgusted by this one paragraph:
“As I have argued elsewhere, the boom-and-bust economic cycle of the past decade has been an unavoidable consequence of a decade of neo-liberal free market fundamentalism that reinforced a culture of corporate greed and excess in the financial sector. The central principles of this extreme form of capitalism are that markets are self-regulating; that government should get out of the road of the market altogether and that the state itself should retreat to its core historical function of security at home and abroad.”
Had our markets resembled anything close to the above description, none of these excesses, by definition, would have been possible. Other excesses? Perhaps. But neither private nor public debt growth, systemic risk, derivative bubbles, compensation absurdities, etc are results of a “free” market. Only a government sponsored market allows such.
Failing to make such a distinction is intellectually dishonest.
July 28th, 2009 at 3:09 am
@ingolf – I see having done some more digging around that link above, that when the above was originally crossposted on nakedcapitalism you were one of the commentors. Do you have any thoughts to add here?
July 28th, 2009 at 3:13 am
hi height/scepticus,
always a pleasure to read your enlightened musings, i learn much
re bartercard-if there was a bigger debacle regarding an alternative trading system in australia i cant think of one.
having had dealings with bartercard, the potential for credit surpluses which cant be spent depending on what line of business one was in is significant. it will not have a prosperous future.
back to the main arguement
may be we should stop bankers from extending credit, if they dont have the reserves to back it up.
forgive me if im wrong but
the whole point of 100% reserve banking i thought was to ensure that credit growth was more in line with the rate of capital accumilation in the system and the level of savings being generated, as oppossed to high stakes game of leverage thats gone on recently that would make vegas casino owners blush.
may be we should go back to alot of real money, and a little of the virtual stuff, instead of the other way around
the repost would be, well its too difficult too find out what the exact level of reserves are, so it would be difficult to police, and do we want the government vetting banks and loans to this degree.
these are legitamate problems but i sometimes wonder whether its a convenient excuse that promotes the neo classical agenda of minimal interfearence in markets,as oppossed to a genuine attempt to deal with the problem and come up with a solution.
as for alternatives springing up ,
well , what the government giveth it can taketh away.
it aint going to exist if the government says it doesnt, and has a mind to stick to its convictions.
admittedly things would move somewhat slower and probably wouldnt be as exciting as the casino we inhabit now, but it would give us time to smell the roses, and teach us to be more frugal rather than this illusory prosperity we have bought through the slight of hand provided by bankers
if we think banks being leveraged up to 50 to 1 is a bad idea, then who’s to say what a systemically safe level of leverage is.
anyone else other than a loan bank doing what they do would be considered a counterfitter with the full consequences of the legal system bearing down up them.
dont forget up until the 19th century, loan banking had a dubious legal status, and it is only because the state has chosen to give it a priviledge status in terms of what is acceptable commercial behavior, that it survives.
and scepticus you will have to enlighten me as to why you think no lending will take place under a 100% reserve system, and lets assume we live in a government regulated world instead of a unregulated one, and that the world is occupied by lazy rent seeking individuals who have a lot of money but havnt got a clue how to turn it into a nuts and bolts investment, and are quite happy to lend it to others for a percentage fee.
cheers and keep up the great posts,
July 28th, 2009 at 4:00 am
mahaish, a few answers for you:
“having had dealings with bartercard, the potential for credit surpluses which cant be spent depending on what line of business one was in is significant. it will not have a prosperous future.”
I haven’t used it but was intrigued by teh idea. I think your experience showever illustrate why fungibility of debt is so crucial to a functioning economy. Hence the need for risk taking intermediaries.
“may be we should stop bankers from extending credit, if they dont have the reserves to back it up.”
The reserves required will be that necessary to accomodate a given rate of default. If the rate of default ranges up to say 25% of principal extended then that would imply a need for a 25% reserve ratio would it not?
“forgive me if im wrong but
the whole point of 100% reserve banking i thought was to ensure that credit growth was more in line with the rate of capital accumilation ”
If you say so. I guess we could chose to limit growth according to the level of deferred consumption ‘D’, or we could extend credit appropriate to the rate of growth ‘G’. If the former then it is still possible that D > G, in which case what happens? Also, if poential-G is significantly greater than D, then money will be scarce and pressure will arise to find alternatives to the official money. Also, if potential-G > D, unemployment will result, and historically societies have always aimed to mimimise unemployment and if required sacrifice the store of value. Why is that?
An arbitrary upper limit on credit extension can be achieved by just raising bank reserve ratio to the preferred level and then enforcing said rule.
“as for alternatives springing up ,
well , what the government giveth it can taketh away.”
Any two parties without money may transact using alternative arranagments. When such transactions significantly outnumber official money transactions the former arrnagement, whatever it may be will become money, since it is more liquid by definition, it must be money and the official money, less liquid, not.
“teach us to be more frugal rather than this illusory prosperity we have bought through the slight of hand provided by bankers”
frugality should not be sanctified when it is not necessary, and should not be confused with hoarding. The latter does no-one any good in the end.
“if we think banks being leveraged up to 50 to 1 is a bad idea, then who’s to say what a systemically safe level of leverage is.”
Can’t argue with that. What you have is good banks and bad banks, with the latter levered right up and offering higher returns than good banks. If depositors were not molly coddled by the state via FDIC then the depositors at the bad banks would get a regular haircut when things went pair shaped.
“anyone else other than a loan bank doing what they do would be considered a counterfitter with the full consequences of the legal system bearing down up them.”
Its not counterfeting. If me and thee have no money, and I buy you apples and give you an IOU, which you subsequently trade for a sausage, and then the sausage vendor comes to me for payment of a candy bar, is my IOU illegal or immoral if I can pony up the candy?
“and it is only because the state has chosen to give it a priviledge status in terms of what is acceptable commercial behavior, that it survives.”
I do agree we need to revisit some of those priviledges, and ensure that the banks pay for this protection.
July 28th, 2009 at 4:03 am
thanks for the contribution dr washo,
you will have to enlighten me on this, but will money become scarce in a 100% reserve system. wouldnt that entirely depend on the rate of capital accumilation, and the level of production and supply and the resulting price level
dont get me wrong, im still wondering how viable a 100% reserve banking system would be for the reasons that have been pointed out by others.
tell me does rothbard advocate 100% reserve banking. i havnt got around to reading all that he has to say on the matter.
despite black markets being the scourge of the state aparatus, the notion of work arounds i think under plays the coercive power of the state through its control of the currency, a power that would only be undermined through the most extreme of circumstances.
and i dont think the imposition of a 100% reserve qualifies.
i’m thinking capital accumilation would be a lot slower under such a system, but then again so would debt accumilation , or am i wrong.
July 28th, 2009 at 4:24 am
hi scepticus,
couple of things,
dont get me wrong im not sure if i am a fan of 100% reserve banking or not. just exploring.
re the given rate of default-its clear to me given whats gone on in the last 12 months that working out the potential rate of default is quite problematic for bankers.
growth fuelled by equal or greater amounts of debt is no growth at all , but at best cycling on the same spot.
the probelm is not the one candy bar i want , but if every body else decides they want their candy bars back at the same time for which they have been given a promisory note for.
great chatting with you , enjoyed it immensly, need to sleep
July 28th, 2009 at 8:54 am
I don’t agree with the following:
‘neither private nor public debt growth, systemic risk, derivative bubbles, compensation absurdities, etc are results of a “free” market. Only a government sponsored market allows such.’
It is not only the “government” as there are other, more powerful players, the corporations and banks. The governments didn’t stop them. I still don’t understand how the free market could be a solution because not everything in our society can be reduced to selling and buying.
Failure to understand so resembles to me an attempt to build a physical theory where electro-magnetism doesn’t exist and everything is reduced to gravitational forces.
This is a very good example of the power of corporations – a guy has been sued for USD 4.5 mln for file sharing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/jul/27/filesharing-music-industry
In the pure free market system big corporations would have even more freedom to screw up people as the state wouldn’t intervene. They will be even more empowered to define new kinds of “property rights” with the little help of the lawyers and politicians believing in the absolute property rights (as the foundation of the free markets).
What if a significant part of my genome has already been patented?
Some people believe that life has been created by God some think that our genome is a product of evolution – how can anyone sane even consider assigning property rights to the information stored in my DNA?
But corporations can always hire a lawyer which will prove that this is right and pay a lobbyist which will make sure that the appropriate legislation is passed.
This is where the unfettered power of money leads to – the ultimate enslavement of people not to any kind of freedom. I really don’t care why dead philosophers from the first half of the 20th century couldn’t predict this. Reading these philosophers is simply a waste of time to me.
Let’s talk about the reality. Strong governments are needed to limit property rights of people and corporations otherwise we will end up with the new system based of slavery.
July 28th, 2009 at 9:14 am
That private debt does not deserve respect. It was irresponsibly lent in the first place, and the financial institutions that lent it should pay the price–not the public nor the public purse–via deliberate debt reduction. This of course would bankrupt those financial institutions, but as should be obvious from the US experience, these institutions are effectively bankrupt already.
Now we just need to make this view the consensus. I would love to invest in my winery if I could just get those damned credit cards paid off!
Steve, you need to go on the Max Keiser television programs.
July 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Great article, excellent posts. Thanks all.
“He talks about our massive run-up in personal debt in Australia (yes, like it only occurred under the Howard Government) – but conveniently neglects to point out that a very large proportion of that debt funded our own housing ponzi (or to fund wasteful consumption from that “paper wealth” delivered by the housing ponzi.)”
Homes4aussies – I think that even if a politician believed that the housing Ponzi scheme should end, it would be politically disastrous to be among the first to state the facts. The opposition has no morals, honour or ethics (true of most oppositions) and would devour any leader who attempted to end a decades-long folly.
If the Emperor realises he has no clothes, the best thing to do is to quietly slip something on, not trumpet his nakedness.
July 28th, 2009 at 9:23 am
There is an excellent summary of the current state of affairs in the US here;
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/end-of-end-of-recession.html