Part 1: The USA
The most recent “unexpectedly good” growth figures for the USA appear to indicate that what will still be the worst downturn since the Great Depression is finally over.
However this is not your usual downturn. Not only is it acknowledged as the most severe since the Great Depression, it has also evoked the most remarkable government economic stimulus ever seen. It would be bizarre if this had not had an effect on the data.
Whether a recovery is truly underway in the private sector therefore depends on how the economy is likely to perform after the stimulus is withdrawn.
The “recession is over” reaction could be valid under two circumstances. Either:
- The figures are very high even when the government stimulus is taken into account; or
- If the economy could be expected to continue growing endogenously after the stimulus were withdrawn, even if the aggregate numbers for this quarter were good only because the government stimulus was so large.
Let’s consider the first option. The growth rate on an annualised basis for the last quarter was 3.5%. The BEA’s decomposition of this notes that 1.66% of the growth was due to increased motor vehicle output, which was primarily driven by the government’s “Cash for Clunkers” program. Another 0.48% was due to the growth in government expenditure.

There are also some elements of the figures that simply seem, in the original sense of the word, incredible. For example, rising investment levels—up 11.5%—were a major reason for the positive reading. But all components of this measure were either tepid or negative—except for residential investment, which was up a whopping 23.4%.
That just doesn’t tally with the most depressed real estate market in history; possibly this huge contribution to aggregate investment could be the result of a large movement from a very small base, whereas the sector’s weight in the overall calculations of investment hasn’t been revised downwards to reflect its true contribution today. Or it could be a problem with the data sample that will be revised substantially downwards in later estimates of GDP.
Either way, the prospect that a serious recession, which was caused by the bursting of a housing bubble, which left an unprecedented stock of unsold existing houses on the market, and which has led to an unprecedented unsold over-supply of existing housing stock, has been ended by a revival in housing investment… is simply incredible.
That leaves the second option—that even though the positive figure was the product of the government stimulus, when this is withdrawn the economy can be expected to continue growing on its own.
Here trends in consumer income and non-residential investment are the important issues. These would both need to be positive (or at least turning from lows) for the private sector to resume growth in the next quarter without the need for stimulus.
Consumer disposable income fell at a substantial 3.4% annualised rate in the quarter, while fixed investment expenditure rose by an anaemic 2.3% and investment in structures fell by 2.5%.
It is thus likely that if the government stimulus were withdrawn, both these private sector areas would show even more negative figures over this quarter.
However, another way of looking at whether this is the end of the recession is to look at the timing of turning points in the data and economic recoveries (this requires attempting to deduce the cyclical components in the data from the trend). On this and the conventional set of indicators, it looks like the “avoided the iceberg” call could be right. Firstly as the next graph indicates, during the recession all factors save government spending were below trend, and the two biggest factors in the turnaround are a revival in investment (driving almost exclusively by the “23.4% rise” in residential investment!) and net exports.

The role of net exports is unusual (though unremarkable), but the turnaround in investment is a sign of recovery that has occurred in all previous recessions—as the next chart indicates.

However there is another factor that hasn’t yet been considered—the role of credit. During post-War recession, credit growth has dropped well below trend, and the recovery has involved rising debt levels. This is not the sign of a healthy economy—far from it—but this is how the US economy has “recovered” from every previous post-WWII recession.
Not this time it appears: if this is a recovery, then it’s a highly unusual one because credit growth is still well below trend—and, in fact, negative: America is deleveraging.

We therefore have the strange combination that one accepted “leading indicator” of recovery—a turnaround in investment—appears to have occurred, while another less favoured indicator—the trend in credit growth—is still pointing at recession.
I apologise for getting somewhat geeky here, but this is one issue that a simple check of charts can’t decide—we have to delve deeper to work out which of these two contradictory indicators to take more seriously. So the next two tables get slightly more technical and look at the correlations over time between changes in the components of GDP and credit and changes in real GDP.
Here the data favours debt growth as the leading indicator to watch. Investment is strongly correlated with GDP, but that’s hardly surprising since it constitutes a major and volatile component of GDP. Just as with consumption—the larger but less volatile major component—its correlation is highest when coincident with GDP. It is not a leading indicator.

The two best leading indicators are debt, and government spending—with the former stronger than the latter. Government spending a year ahead of GDP is a good indicator of which way GDP will go—something which supports the Chartalist approach to macroeconomics and undermines conventional “neoclassical” economic thinking. But changes in debt are a stronger indicator still, and have a stronger effect closer to the actual movements in GDP.
The previous correlations covered the whole post-WWII period (from 1952 till now), but there has clearly been structural change in the US economy over that time—especially the relocation of production to offshore low-wage countries, the growth of the FIRE sector with the economy’s increasing dependence on debt, and the shift in economic policy from a “Keynesian” orientation to a “Neoclassical” one (prior to this crisis) in the mid-1970s. So the next two tables repeat the above correlations, but just with data from 1990.

These reinforce the argument that movements in debt matter as an indicator of whether we’re out of the recession or not—and the answer is no. It also appears that the influence of government spending on economic performance weakened while neoclassicals were in charge (and behaving as neoclassicals—rather than “Born Again Keynesians” as they are now).
So I don’t believe that this quarter of growth for the USA implies it has dodged the iceberg. Instead a patch-up job has been done on the damage, but the USS is still taking on water as the private sector deleverages.
Part 2: Australia
The Australian result of only one negative quarter of growth, followed by a return to positive growth is the best in the OECD. This was driven by:
- The dramatic positive impact on household budgets from the cut in interest rates by 4%, which reduced debt service from 15.4% to 10.3% of disposable income;
- A stimulus package that was equivalent to 2.5% of GDP, the largest such package in the OECD;
- Australia’s unusual position as a commodity producer—so that we benefited from China’s huge stimulus package and recent stockpiling of commodities; and
- The enticement to households to take on additional mortgage debt that goes by the name of the First Home Buyers Boost.
The first two factors alone resulted in a 9% increase in houshold disposable income over the year from June 2008 to 2009—an unheard of development in boom times, let alone during an economic crisis. As Gerard Minack put it in his Downunder Daily on October 9th, “If that’s recession, bring it on!”
As a result of this policy-driven paradox—rising disposable income in a recession—Australia will not record a fall in real output on an annual basis in 2009, a result that is in stark contrast to outcomes in the rest of the OECD.

So fast and massive government action—by both its Treasury and Central Bank wings—averted a recession in the face of an unprecedented financial crisis.
This is a welcome outcome—and one that contradicts one of the latest fads that dominated economics prior to the GFC, “rational expectations macroeconomics”, which argued that the government couldn’t affect real output. As I noted in an earlier post, though neoclassically-trained economists drove the policy response, they did so as “Born Again Keynesians”, and if their rescue does work, then it contradicts neoclassical economics just as much as the GFC’s very existence did in the first place.
Also as noted in that post, the only school of economic thought that could be vindicated by this outcome is the Post Keynesian “Chartalist” group, which argues that any macroeconomic downturn can be averted by sufficiently strong government action.
The question for the future is what the economy is likely to do after the special factors that turned it into a comparative boom for Australian households and exporters are unwound.
Already the RBA has started to reverse the first factor above, by raising interest rates by 0.25% at its October meeting, flagging that it will do as much or more on Melbourne Cup day, and implying that the reserve rate could be as high as 5-6% by the end of 2010. If the RBA followed that plan of action, then the debt servicing costs for households would rise to over 15 percent of household disposable income. This would reverse more than half of the improvement to disposable incomes engineered by government policy during the GFC.

Moreover, this increase in debt servicing costs would come on top of the removal of the First Home Buyers Boost (FHBB)—which I prefer to call the First Home Vendors Boost.
Prior to that foolish policy, Australian households were deleveraging—reducing their debt levels. Thanks to it, they increased their debt levels so that the ratio of mortgage debt to GDP in Australia is now at an all-time record, and exceeds the level in the USA (though not the UK). in mid-2008, the mortgage debt to GDP ratio peaked at 84.9%, and it then fell to 84.2% by the end of 2008. Under the influence of the FHOB, that ratio stopped falling and is now 88.4%—an all-time record, and five times the level that applied in 1989.
This government-induced $50 billion increase in mortgage debt has been a major factor in driving the economy upward, despite the GFC. The takeup of the boost is truly staggering—from a nationwide total of 121 in October 2008, to 5,385 the next month, and a peak of 20,389 in June 2009. The total enticed into taking out a mortgage will surely exceed 200,000 by the end of December—and represent more than one percent of the Australian population.

How did the Government get such a fabulous “multiplier” out of its Boost—put in $1.5 billion, get $50 billion additional spending on housing (at $7000 per recipient, times roughly 200,000 recipients by the time the Boost ends—there were 171,000 recipients as of the end of September 2009)? Because the recipients of the grants used the $7,000 to get an additional $40,000-$50,000 in finance from their mortgage lender, and then handed this over to the First Home Vendor (FHV) in a grossly inflated sale price.
The FHV then took this additional cash and leveraged it into an additional $200,000 or so for their next house purchase. So the FHVB caused a bubble, not merely in the sub-$500,000 price range that most First Home Buyers inhabit, but right up to the $1 million range that accounts for more than 90% of Australian housing. The leverage on the FHBB was not merely seven to one, but closer to 50:1 given this flow-on effect.
With this government-engineered mortgage debt spree, it’s no wonder that the Australian house price bubble, which had begun to deflate in late 2008, has taken off once more. It’s rather apt that my walk to Kosciuszko (as a result of Rory Robertson’s bet with me) will start from Parliament House, since there’s no doubt about Parliament’s role in keeping this Ponzi Scheme alive.

The impact on Australia’s financial position was dramatic and will, in the long run, be very, very bad. It has encouraged us to go back to the same unsustainable trend of rising debt to income levels that caused the GFC in the first place. It has also engineered an unnaturally fast return to rising debt levels: in the 1990s recession, it took 29 months to go from “peak debt” (85.34% of GDP in February 1991) to “trough debt” (79.14% in July 1993). This time it has taken just 14 months (from 164.8%in March 2008 to 158.84% in May 2009).

After the 1990s recession, debt levels took off in the Great Aussie Mortgage Bubble, rising from 85% to almost 165% of GDP in just 15 years. If we are to get out of this crisis the same way we escaped from “The Recession We Had To Have”, then debt levels would need to continue rising relative to GDP. Which raises the question, “Who Are You Going To Lend To?” Both households and businesses are carrying more debt than in any previous recession, and the business sector is still deleveraging—only households are taking on more debt.

All these factors lead me to expect that 2010 will be a bad year for the Australian economy:
- The combination of the RBA’s rate rises and the ending of the First Home Buyers Boost will in all likelihood prick the house price bubble inspired by the Boost in the first place—and lead as many as 175,000 households to be very angry that they were enticed into this speculative bubble in the first place. If this happens, there is little prospect of making the House Price Souffle rise twice by yet another foolish enticement into debt.
- The political pressure on the government may lead it to unwind its stimulus, which will remove a key prop from the economy; and
- Deleveraging, which has been the looming problem that government policy (especially the First Home Vendors Grant) has simply delayed, will kick in as it has in the USA. The most likely manifestation would be a decline in discretionary consumption and non-mining investment.
I therefore expect that the RBA won’t get to complete its intended program of raising interest rates, but will be forced to go into reverse in 2010 as it was in 2008. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the RBA was still raising rates in mid-2008 to fight inflation. They didn’t see the GFC coming, and I believe that they’re making a similar mistake this time—believing that it’s all behind us when the special factors that minimised the impact are terminating.
So no I don’t believe we have dodged the iceberg—we’ve merely pushed it below the surface, from where it will rise again to dent out economic hull once more. And all the while the neoclassical economists who didn’t realise they were in an ice field in the first place are busily rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Table One

Table Two







November 2nd, 2009 at 9:34 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by greychampion, John Hacking. John Hacking said: Debtwatch No. 40 November 2009: Have we dodged the Iceberg?: Part 1: The USA The most recent “unexpectedl.. http://bit.ly/3U1Mk9 [...]
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
The grand ship Titanic has taken on a lot of water (debt). This will take years of taxation to overcome. To just service future US government deficit spending, another 10 trillion of debt has to be created. Who will lend the US this debt? The world is wising up to the grand ship Titanic.
There are indications that the US commercial real estate market is going to burst. Vacancies are increasing. Rents are falling. Investment in commercial real estate is falling.
The general populace is having their job hours cut. Wages are frozen or even dropping. I know of one person living in America that now pay over 50% taxes and their wage has dropped 40%. Deleveraging and Deflation is still happening in many sectors in the US economy. Obama is attempting to get credit flowing again but how can this happen when the general populace can not trust there own government. Who were the big winners from the US stimulus? This has sown the seeds of total distrust. The general populace are getting out of or avoiding debt all together and preparing their life rafts.
What did the rich do when the Titanic was sinking and they were doomed to sink with the Titanic or thinking that they could be rescue (more bailouts). They sat in their first class lounges and drank cocktails. Just like a fancy cocktail party. Could it been that the rich are benefiting from the exorbitant bonuses and investing as usual (keeping in mind “driving almost exclusively by the “23.4% rise” in residential investment”)? And in turn this is benefiting those who provide goods and services to the rich.
Two things that is surely growing in the US is this is inequality of incomes and total distrust in government.
Australia will feel the coming wave when the grand ship Titanic sinks.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Good article Steve’s – from the article
“Government spending a year ahead of GDP is a good indicator of which way GDP will go—something which supports the Chartalist approach to macroeconomics and undermines conventional “neoclassical” economic thinking”
Let’s take deficit spending to the limit. What happens when every family has two cars; simple the government gives even more cash so that every family can then have three cars and so on. What happens when house prices reach 10 times average annual income and young families can only afford interest payments if borrowing rates are 0%; simple the government practises QE and drives interest rates negative. What happens when schools are totally rebuilt from the ground up; this one is very simple; the government simply breaks down the new schools and build even newer ones. If, and this is a big if, if all of the above fails then the government can give everyone a million dollars to spend on Chinese imports; this has the added benefit of helping China. Ah, life is so simple being a Chartalist.
November 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Steve how do you see the Australian government’s response to a declining situation 2010? The RBA will do as you say. but the policy options in an election year are considerable. Another set of bribes perhaps?
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Prof Keen,
As always, an interesting post.
I have a couple of questions. Apologies if you have answered them in earlier posts, since I am new to this forum.
1. Why do you analyse gross debt, rather than net debt, and not taking into account the rapid increase in superannuation funds since 1991. Noting around 30% of these funds are cash, Loans, and government debt. (I hope the following table comes out….)
Jun-91 Jun-09
GDP 408318 1203808
Household debt 96950 944266
Super 91816 891450
Other funds 126044 314952
Total Funds 217860 1206402
Net Household debt (NHHD) -120910 -262136
NHHD / GDP -29.6% -21.8%
2. If we have dodged the iceberg, is it truely fair to say neo-classical theory is dead? Do they not advocate increasing the money supply during downturns – which is exactly what central banks have done. They could possibly argue fiscal policy was simply a waste of taxpayer funds.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 pm
“Ah, life is so simple being a Chartalist.”
That post was a complete misrepresentation of chartalism. They have only advocated deficit spending to accomodate whatever private sector saving may be desired. That is very different to your characterisation of their position.
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Aac,
I think that you haven’t even tried to understand what you are criticising. What you wrote has nothing to do with Chartalism, it is more Charlatanism.
This is “pure” Chartalism from prof Mitchell’s blog:
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=5762
“First, spending on capital works could easily be realised without a cent of debt being issued. Not a cent is required to allow a sovereign government to spend whatever it likes subject to goods and services being available for sale. This is not the same thing as saying the government can always build infrastructure without concern for other dimensions in the aggregate economy.
For example, if the economy was at full capacity and the government tried to undertake a major nation building exercise then it might hit inflationary problems – it would have to compete at market prices for resources and bid them away from their existing uses.
In those circumstances, the government may – if it thought it was politically reasonable to build the infrastructure – quell demand for those resources elsewhere – that is, create some unemployment. How? By increasing taxes. It might also issue debt – more about which later. But neither of these actions (tax rate rises or debt-issuance) would be about raising funds for the spending. They would not even be remotely about that.
As we will see in a moment – these policy actions are about reducing the amount of spending capacity in the private sector.”
“So the only reason a government should issue debt is if it wanted to alter the “proportions in which the public holds securities or money”. It is clearly recognised that the government does not need to raise revenue. Debt and taxation are dimensions of the “steering wheel” and help keep the economy on the road.”
“This is one of the fundamental insights of MMT – that the issuing of debt drains excess bank reserves that were generated by the net spending (deficits) in the first place. The government just borrows its one spending back. If it didn’t do that and if the central bank didn’t pay a return on overnight reserves then the interest rate would fall to zero (or some support rate that the central bank did pay).
So two things are learned here: (a) net public spending generates the financial assets which are then borrowed – so debt issuance cannot “finance” (by which we mean allow) government net spending; and (b) deficits do not put upward pressure on interest rates contrary to the crowding out story rehearsed above in Mankiw.”
If you think that Chartalism is incorrect please produce meaningful arguments against assertions made by prof Mitchell – otherwise I don’t think you have made a point.
I am not saying that implementing MMT will not have some side effects and I am not 100% sure that it all will work (but let’s leave my doubts for now).
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:00 am
Steve, I reckon you’re right – we haven’t dodged the iceberg. I’m wondering what kind of shenanigans the government can pull to keep this charade going though. Is there a way for the government to keep this game going for a few years rather than a few months? After all, we haven’t seen the Australian government nationalise the banking or motor industry yet here… so I figure there’s more they could try!
On a side note, if the economy tanks, won’t the opposition look like fools the way they are going on about “no recession”… but then the RBA would have egg on their face too… and the government’s egg would all be to do with those 200,000+ angry Australians (and their family and friends) who took up the FHBB just as the house of cards started toppling.
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:22 am
scepticus and ak
>That post was a complete misrepresentation of
>chartalism.
Huh – you want it in point form. Why do I get the feeling that these arguments simply goes around in circles.
> They have only advocated deficit spending to
> accomodate > whatever private sector saving
> may be desired.
Ok, maybe it’s because ak who seems to be in love with Chartalism is so adamant that money printing fixes all. Besides what the hell is the government doing deciding how much savings one should have and indeed how much savings any particular group/sector should have. If there’s too little savings to service debt then ‘let them default’. So here are the fundamental problems with all money printing regimes – again:
- Deficit spending supports asset prices – you have admitted to this ak. Tell the young families trying to buy a house how helpful the FOHG is; ie. Chartalism = FHOG. You want even more proof of how governments distort the market. And no it’s not a matter of increasing spending by increasing savings by increasing deficits to support dysfunctional industries.
- It widens the gap between the super rich (financial elites) and the rest of us by not allowing the asset rich to take their medicine (again see the Wealth disparity paper I have previously mentioned). It’s interesting that many think that inflation will hurt the elite when in fact the asset rich stay rich – you lot have completely misread the situation – it’s not about balancing an equation.
- It encourages wasteful consumerism by taking up the slack in poorly run companies under the guise of improving employment – ie. why are we supporting the car industry and the corrupt banks
- It does not allow failure of the BIG. Please inform me of how the BIG can fail when money is printed at will in the form of tax breaks, grants etc…. to buy the products from the BIG
- It does not foster new industries nor allow well run industries to prosper as the old dinosaurs are not allowed to fail.
- And lastly it destroys the soul as money has lost its meaning – why work when Mr/Mrs government is there to bail.
Instead of a cure in the form of deficit spending maybe the better option is to avoid the bubbles. There’s no need folks to get too technical about the GFC – it really is simple – corruption. Please throw all the self serving intellectual goobly gook at it and let me shoot it down in flames – and no this is not is bad spirits – think – to the point.
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:33 am
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November 3rd, 2009 at 3:18 am
Rather a scary prognosis of what is to come for Australia. But it might have been expected. Since ever I remember the saying has been that whatever happens in California happens here 2 years later, and this bubble bursting looks like it will follow the same pattern. Knowing this time delay (and it is not just caused by the home vendors/lender’s grants here since they have similar crazy schemes in the States) you should have timed your prediction better for your bet, rather than basing it entirely on economic theory.
A big difference is that because of the nature of the loans, “jingle mail” – when the distressed buyer walks off leaving the house to the lender – will not be prevalent or even possible here. In the end this will lead to more personal stress in Australia but it might be less damaging for the banks.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 am
Since the 1972 inflation (subjective value) has run wild and when the economies around the world have gone into recessions, governments have stepped into to keep inflation going. Who has benefited the most since Nixon removed the US dollar from the gold standard, the super rich? I may have been wrong about what Ron Paul was really talking about (inflation tax) but inflation does act as an affective way to transfer wealth.
I would even question Ben Bernanke theory on inflation since calling an increase of the monetary supply inflation is far from the truth. One dictionary definition gives “an increase in the currency regarded as causing inflation“. This is simply an increase in units of currency and each of these units of currency can have an increase or decrease of subjective value or purchasing power.
For 40 years the middle class and working class have tolerated this transfer of wealth and have consoled that they can not change it. This in itself encourages the rich to become more corrupt and greedy. This corruption is so obvious and the general public seems so unwilling to stop this that they could create a GFC and still the people would fall for the story that the GFC was an incident. I have never seen any economic models that include corruption, tax evasion, fraud or utter greed in the formula.
20 year ago I saw that the transfer of wealth would cause capitalism as we know it to fail. 20 year ago I saw that the loaning of money paid back with interest as theft. 20 years ago I saw the wastefulness of poor urban planning. 25 years ago I saw the end result of education as a means to make people show less of their true intelligence. Failure in education does allow an obedient slave class to arise. Real intelligence and genius is treated as worthless while memory retention by constant repetition and letters after one name is given great respect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9cnj3RfRU
Very strange world we live in.
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 am
Which iceberg will sink the Australian economy?
The “Australian Titanic Cup” Day, the iceberg field and the odds:
1. Peak oil 1/2
2. Peak soil 2/1
3. Peak water 2/1
4. Peak food 5/2
5. Peak credit 3/1
6. Super-volcano 7/2
7. Hyperinflation 4/1
8. Peak credit 9/2
9. H1N1 pandemic 5/1
10. Deflation 12/1
11. Overpopulation 15/1
12. Inflation 20/1
13. Stagflation 33/1
14. Alt-A reset 50/1
15. Unemployment 50/1
16. Commercial Properties 66/1
17. Global warming 66/1
18. WW3 66/1
19. Amazon rainforest 66/1
20. Credit cards 66/1
21. Rising sea level 100/1
22. Global cooling (scratched))
23. Carbon emissions 200/1
24. Conspiracy theory 200/1
25. Comets, Asteroids & Meteorites (330/1)
26. Antarctica icebergs (1000/1)
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:08 am
I had peak credit twice, chanege 5.peak credit to 5. currency crisis. The field now looks like this:
1. Peak oil 1/2
2. Peak soil 2/1
3. Peak water 2/1
4. Peak food 5/2
5. Currency crisis 3/1
6. Super-volcano 7/2
7. Hyperinflation 4/1
8. Peak credit 9/2
9. H1N1 pandemic 5/1
10. Deflation 12/1
11. Overpopulation 15/1
12. Inflation 20/1
13. Stagflation 33/1
14. Alt-A reset 50/1
15. Unemployment 50/1
16. Commercial Properties 66/1
17. Global warming 66/1
18. WW3 66/1
19. Amazon rainforest 66/1
20. Credit cards 66/1
21. Rising sea level 100/1
22. Global cooling (scratched))
23. Carbon emissions 200/1
24. Conspiracy theory 200/1
25. Comets, Asteroids & Meteorites 330/1
26. Antarctica iceberg 1000/1
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:21 am
Alan, I’ve done some more reading on Dr Sun Yat-sen. He joined the American Chinese Masonic Society to get funding for his planned revolt against the Manchurian Empire. The American Chinese Masonic Society which was established in North America as a anti-Manchu secrete society gained its foothold in China thru its support of Dr Sun Yat-sen. Its now a one of the more influential political parties.
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:49 am
The Australian economy is energy dependent. Prior to the landing of the convicts, there was no organised labour to do productive works. There were no animals capable of pulling the ploughs, so there was no agriculture and no cause for large settlements.
Agriculture requires large settlements that ignite population growths. Apart from favourable climatic conditions, agricultural production requires energy, good soils and water. Australia has all of them for now but they are depleting fast. The way the Australian economy is operating, cheap energy is the prime mover and cheap energy is synonymous with cheap oil. Hence the issue of Peal oil is the odds-on favourite to tip the Australian economy, or the housing market if you like, into tailspin.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Very funny Laurence.
On that note. You may like this. A friend of mine keeps telling me about peak bees.
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:02 am
Hi BTB, peak bees is for North America.
BTW, have you received an invitation to attend an auction sale? It’s almost equivalent to receiving an invitation to come on board the “Titan”.
Morgan Robertson’s “Futility” is the story of an ocean liner, called the Titan, which sinks in the North Atlantic Ocean after hitting an iceberg, in almost exactly the same manner as the Titanic which actually sank 14 years later. If you do buy a house, go pick number 14 and you’ll get a bargain.
The book is also known as “The Wreck of the Titan”.
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:33 am
BTB, Peak Bees was declared a non-starter for the following reason:
“In 2007, large commercial beekeepers started reporting big drop-offs in their bee colony populations. By 2008, estimated colony losses of between 30 and 70% were being reported, as a flurry of bad news about bees made the media rounds.
The loss since then of over 40% of the nation’s commercial honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies–most seemingly due to so-called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD; caused most likely by the IAPV virus)–ushered in predictions of dire consequences for valuable crops around the world due to a lack of pollinators.”
But a recent analysis of global honey bee populations (by Aizen and Harder*) shows a 45% increase in total numbers since 1961. The data for this analysis came from a global database of managed honeybees.”
The stories of the Titanic and the Titan are more compelling, knowing your interest in dispelling conspiracy theories.
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
[...] Have we dodged the Iceberg? | Steve Keen’s Debtwatch [...]
November 3rd, 2009 at 2:32 pm
RBA has lifted interest rates by 0.25% to 3.5%
http://www.rba.gov.au/
Slightly off topic but this may explain why this site is one of the best
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/03/2731815.htm
“The study also found that sad people were better at stating their case through written arguments, which according to Forgas shows that a “mildly negative mood may actually promote a more concrete, accommodative and ultimately more successful communication style.”
“Positive mood is not universally desirable: people in negative mood are less prone to judgmental errors, are more resistant to eyewitness distortions and are better at producing high-quality, effective persuasive messages,”
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
With all these peaks mentioned I would like add that what we need is peak neoclassical economists. After that and only after that the world economy will undoubtedly begin to experience a real long term recovery.
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Article on Steve Keen in SHM – This Keen professor overlooked by MSM
http://www.smh.com.au/business/this-keen-professor-overlooked-by-msm-20090909-fhoa.html
“… Then Keen told what must have been a startled TV audience that bankers long ago ceased being humble lubricants of commerce, and had instead become parasites. They lend us money to play in a Ponzi scheme, launder the loot through stock and housing markets – where prices are driven up using the money they lent us – and then take a slice of the rising prices and call it a performance bonus.
Far from deserving their salaries, let alone their bonuses, Keen told six o’clock Sunday viewers, bankers deserved to be paid no more than plumbers, and to be given less respect. After all, plumbers fix leaks; if bankers did anywhere near as well, we’d be having a financial ball, not a financial crisis.
That was it. A few simple sentences and the best-laid plans were kaput.
Thus, because an Arab network called, Keen had access to a suit coat and someone saw him commenting on the subject.
Let’s see how much more the prophet comes to grace our screens and talk truth to power. Might be a long time between drinks.
But with those few words all the spin of G20 was hammered out of the ground. I suspect the doctors are still looking for the ball.
David Hirst is a journalist, documentary maker, financial consultant and investor. His column is syndicated by News Bites, a Melbourne-based sharemarket and business news publisher.”
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:38 pm
interesting book your running laurence,
i have to think that super volcano at 7/2 has a tinge of mis pricing about it, since all our volcano’s are extinct.
in indonesia on the other hand , it would be at very short odds indeed, given that its nothing but a chain of active volcanoes.
whats the statute of limitations on comets,asteroids and meteorites at 330/1, because i’d put some money on that and let the grand kids or great grand kids collect, depending on how large the comet is obviously
November 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
steve i’m wondering,
could that large residential investment figure for the US have to do with their own various federal and state government fhog programs ?
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Sorry mahaish, I’ve forgotten about the form guide. You are right, some the odds should be revised accordingly. I think No 6 still has a chance. What do you reckon?
The form guide
1. Peak oil: last year’s winner, carrying a lot of weight,
2. Peak soil: prefer heavy going, today’s track does not suit.
3. Peak water: thirsty to win.
4. Peak food: jockey has been on-diet for the ride.
5. Currency crisis: emergency starter has the potential to upset the field.
6. Super-volcano: failed favorite always a chance; has explosive finishing burst.
7. Hyperinflation: the best of the flations.
8. Peak credit: incredible stamina.
9. H1N1 pandemic: all over the place in the previous runs.
10. Deflation: suffered from heavy interference last start.
11. Overpopulation: a lot of followers.
12. Inflation: watch the price.
13. Stagflation: will stick to midfield
14. Alt-A reset: can surprise.
15. Unemployment: hard job this race, not without a chance.
16. Commercial Properties: outstanding form.
17. Global warming: will burn the track.
18. WW3: will be there at the finish.
19. Amazon rainforest: one of the unknowns.
20. Credit cards: one of the fallen angels.
21. Rising sea level: beyond his reach.
22. Global cooling (scratched)
23. Carbon emissions: proven costly but inside barrier helps.
24. Conspiracy theory: always there
25. Comets, Asteroids & Meteorites 330/1: ranked outsider, prefer distances longer than 2 light years, will be flying in the home run.
26. Antarctica iceberg 1000/1: she’s cool.
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Hi BrightSpark1, No 21’s the winner, absolutely shocking, isn’t it? Did you hear what the trainer said when he was asked how did he train his horse? He said that the horse has to be brought to “peak” on that day. I hope your neoclassical economists peaked 50 years ago.
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Laurence …maybe I am off topic!…but as to No 6….well that’s as I’d like to see myself as a 60 year old single bloke
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Hi Elliottwave
On Sep 20 you posted on: It’s Hard Being a Bear (Part 5)
“Gold will trade at US$1224 on or before November 5 2009.”
Are you staying with that call, or could something have occurred that will delay the expected “currency event”?
Hi BTB
The ASX looks like it could be breaking out of the bear market rally trough to the downside. Even with a positive lead from Wall St stocks are struggling to post gains. Could this be a sign that the “rally” has peaked?
November 3rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm
60 and single? Oracle, you are only a kid; bursting with energy.
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:06 pm
I am!!! I just have trouble, from time to time, stimulating the appropriate degree of enthusiasm in some of those with whom I’d LIKE to be come to ‘know’ in the biblical sense:)
We had better ’shuddup’ or Steve will think his site has been hijacked!
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Stats
Someone ought to have the job of collecting all the damned forecasts and prognostications, videos and written word, of all the fools who rule and administer us and publishing them on a web site for all to see.
EW you must have youth on your side…we older blokes know now to couch our forecasts in terms of ‘we are right whichever way it goes!!’or to make the time frame such like sometime in the next 20 years x is going to happen!! I think many of us here suffer the same problem. We probably see the problems too clearly which tends to make us earlier in our predictions than the real world, with all its shenanigans, delivers.
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
As near as I can tell, in the whole damned lot of the spruikers, there is only one man prepared to stand by (and walk for)what he says!!!! The rest stupidly go on pretending to be the fount of all wisdom!!! That’s why, when Steve walks, it would be good to have a few clips of Henry, Stevens, Swan, Kohler et al ready to hand for the news media!!! I wouldn’t mind a bit of a comb through Macquarie’s files to check Rory Robertson’s predictions over the years 2006 – 2008.
Can you believe they gave that moron Henry an extra $100,000 a year!!!!
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:39 pm
hey outback,
60 is the new 40,
i hear there is a little blue pill that might help you in your efforts in flagrante delicto
November 3rd, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Here is today’s story on the latest tinkering of the First Home Vendor’s Grant by Terry McCrann, with an honourable mention for yourself Steve.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/terry-mccranns-column/behaving-stupidly/story-e6frfig6-1225793672899
By the way I’m not sure we want align banker salaries with those of plumbers. Do you know what they really earn?!!
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:07 pm
if i had to pick a trifecta laurence ,
it would depend on if it was a race for stayers over 30 years, or quick sprint over 5 years,
assuming its a melbourne cup equivalant, cant go past peak oil(finite resources), peak water(drought), and currency crisis, with ww3(at least a few ww2 and a halfs) a roughie
November 3rd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Mish hot on the d-d case yet again…
“I believe Steve Keen and I have it correct. In a credit-based, fiat-currency model, deflation will always manifest itself as debt-deflation. Price deflation is a meaningless sideshow.”
http://marketoracle.co.uk/Article14702.html
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm
There could very well be price deflation. It will depend on the limits of international tolerance of money flows and import/exports. I think once the real game starts, which it hasn’t and it suddenly comes to pass that zero interest rates are too high to support repayment of speculative funds, there will be price shocks everywhere. In the meantime, I don’t believe the Australian government stopped the recession, but instead the policies to encourage a flood of private debt together with the Chinese false financing and speculation in minerals did. This attempt in Australia looks much like the USA response to the dotcom debacle, where residential construction along with other debt games along with momentum from tech allowed for only a blip of a recession in 2001. The real mineral boom is behind us, but the speculative echo continues.
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Hi Stats,
Yes the ASX has completed 5 waves down. That’s a good first sign for a trend change. The indicies that have broken trend are many and varied. I expect a bounce for part or all of this week. That should empower the bulls and scare the shorts.
I also expect a bounce in gold (why oh why did I mention gold?) As usual gold is ambiguous. That’s why I don’t like trading it. Silver completed 5 waves down, but gold may have only painted 3 (which implies correction from the main trend) . I will not be shocked if gold makes a new high this week. I will be shocked and tip my hat the EW if it goes over $1200 before the 5th or 8th though. Either way I’m staying away from gold. Too much religion!
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Hi Mannfm11,
Interesting observation. One point I would make is that there is no residential construction boom yet. At this stage developers are not welcome at the banks. In fact many developers are facing collapse. The banks consider themselves over-exposed to this sector and so new projects are few and far between.
Certainly the project builders have had a boost from the FHOG. Green field development is usually under 30 or 40% of new construction. My guess is that green field development is virtually all that is going on.
That is very bad from a planning and environmental point of view. But hey, who cares about the environment when we have to save the economy? Blah blah blah!!!
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Terry McCrann!!…..Is he really suggesting that a cap in the FHOG will encourage rich kids to ditch the harbour front apartment and buy a run down terrace in Rozelle, just so they can get a $14k cheque from the government?
I think he drank too much at the races today…..
November 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Hey Steve, have you seen this about your walk:
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,26299725-462,00.html
Economist Steve Keen loses housing bet against Rory Robertson
You know I’m really looking forward to this bubble exploding.
November 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Hi Laurence,
I thought of two more starters for your Melbourne Cup of catastrophe.
5/2 Stock market crash
5/2 Derivatives blow up and cascading defaults.
Ha ha!
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Sorry if someone has commented on this already, I haven’t had time to keep up lately. But I am concerned about this government guarantee of the banks, and of us maybe ending up like Iceland. I would hate to think of my kids being:
a) Impoverished by huge taxes to cover bank overlending
b) Living in a dictatorship once our creditors destroy our economy and political system (Hudson’s prediction for Iceland if they try ans pay their debts); or
c) In a war to escape the above situation
Now I believe we should have let the lousy banks fail, like any bad business should, but instead our government has bailed them out with this guarantee which allows them to continue to borrow huge sums from overseas and push up our housing prices (please correct me if this assessment is wildy wrong). Now I know that these bank debts to foreigners are probably not in Aussie currency, so the government cannnot inflate its way out them, but I was wondering if someone could please comment on the possibility of the Government inflating our dollar to allow everyday people to pay back their loans (which are denominated in AU$) and let the banks fail (like they already should have) by not then having enough AU$ to pay back their loans?
Is this a possible way out of this problem, at least for future loans, if the guarantees are stopped on any future bank borrowing as of now?
November 3rd, 2009 at 9:58 pm
MMitchell,
No Australian Govt will let any of the Big Four fail. Because the electorate would never stand for it. So you can forget that as an option. Everything else is on the table, including bailout and partial nationalisation at HUGE taxpayer expense.We are now a nation of debt slaves (private and public) where any deviation from “equilibrium” would have severe effects on household finances. Therefore, “equilibrium” ie status quo, must be maintained at any and ALL costs.Even if we incur the biggest debt in our nation’s history. That is the view of the Rudd Govt and is played out daily as we can all see.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Steve,
I stopped reading when you started talking about what would happen “when the stimulus is withdrawn”. WTF??? How naive do you want to be? No freakin’ stimulus will be withdrawn. At least, not for more that the time it takes the small business, workers and media to squeal loudly!
You’ve been badly gazumped, in my estimation. Your model has been punctured and is slowly deflating (pun intended).
Your followers need a better explanation (or, perhaps a more succint formula).
Failing that, the Masses are ready to revolt.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Further to above, if the Australian property market is stressed sufficiently enough to threaten the viability of our Big 4 Banks, you can expect the Govt to get heaviliy involved in bailing out the failed mortgages at Banks and issueing new mortgages directly if the banks withdraw from the market. As the FHA does in the US. I am convinced this scam has already been implicitly conveyed. The banks are under no illusions here. Whatever happens they will be made whole one way or another. Our banks are a protected species and therefore they will be protected with our taxpayer dollars.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:11 pm
MMitchell,
The way I see it, the Australian banks will not be allowed to fail.
Our taxpayer dollars have been and will continue to be used to prop the them up. We the taxpayers are in effect human shields.
However, the local banks may be nationalised at some point in the future subject to the interests of the bondholders, preferred shareholders and any other important local or foreign entity.
Any attempt to cancel or inflate our way out of debt will mostly be met with some form of creditor backlash.
And in any event, Australia does not appear to be able to withstand any sort of financial assualt similar to that experienced by Iceland.
Australia can’t tell the World what to do, but the World (especially the USA and China) can tell us what to do.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 pm
MMitchell
The following article should be able to answer your questions; lots of numbes and good charts.
“Australia’s foreign debt—data and trends”
http://www.aph.gov.au/LIBRARY/Pubs/rp/2008-09/09rp30.htm
“Executive Summary
Australia has always been a net recipient of overseas funds.
• Australia’s foreign debt has grown rapidly. Between 1976 and 2008, the level of gross foreign debt increased from $8 billion to $1 072 billion, or from 9 to 95 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP). Net foreign debt increased from $3 billion to $600 billion, or from 4 to 53 per cent of GDP. (Table 1.)
• Gross interest paid overseas averaged around half of one per cent of GDP through the 1960s and most of the 1970s. It then increased rapidly and by 2007–08 was equal to 3.8 per cent of GDP, or its second highest level ever. (Table 2.)
• Estimates of Australia’s gross foreign debt are available back to 1901. These show that at 95 per cent of GDP, Australia’s gross foreign debt in 2008 was at its highest level ever. (Table 3.)
• The general government and Reserve Bank’s share of gross foreign debt has fallen sharply since the 1980s, as has the share held by private non-financial corporations. At 74 per cent of GDP, the largest holders of debt in 2008 were private financial corporations. (Table 4.)
• The proportion of debt denominated in Australian dollars increased from 15 per cent in 1981 to peak at 47 per cent in 1995. In 2008 it was equal to 39 per cent. (Table 5.)
• The most important creditor countries for Australia are the United Kingdom and the United States which, in 2007, accounted for 23 and 22 per cent (respectively) of Australia’s gross foreign debt. (Table 6.)
• The turnover of foreign debt is rapid with many loans outstanding due within a very short period. In 2008, 37 per cent of loans were due within 90 days. (Table 7.)
• Exchange rate movements can have a significant impact on the level of debt. (Table 8.)
• Debt accounted for 87 per cent of net investment in 2008; the corresponding figure in 1980 was just 29 per cent. (Table 9.)”
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:49 pm
So GSM if the Gvt steps in during a hypothetical banking crisis and that is quite possible – what is the scenario for house prices, real or imagined? In that scenario the banks are in a ruined/wrecked financial market and/or the rest of the real economy is likewise. Government holds up the pretense but that could play out like the US now.