I delayed publishing this on the blog because I thought it was worth submitting it to a newspaper for first publication on the anniversary of the Lehman Brothers collapse. That has occurred: a slightly edited version of this post (for reasons only of length, I hasten to add!) is in today’s Sydney Morning Herald (page 4 of the print version), WA Today, and probably several other newspapers in the Fairfax chain.
You have just come from your annual medical checkup, where your doctor assures you that you are in robust health.
Walking jauntily down the street, you bump into a practitioner of alternative medicine. He takes one look at you and declares “You have a serious tumour! It must be removed or you will die”.
You ignore him as you always have, and continue your merry way down the street. One day later, a stabbing pain suddenly cripples you, and you collapse to the pavement.
In agony, your call your doctor, who initially refuses to send an ambulance because he knows you are well.
When you lapse into a coma and stop talking mid-sentence, your doctor concludes that perhaps something is wrong, and sends an ambulance to take you to hospital.
Initially the doctor waits for you to revive spontaneously, because he still knows there’s nothing really wrong with you. But as your pulse starts to weaken, he reluctantly calls a retired doctor who had experience of a similar inexplicable malady in the distant past.
She prescribes massive doses of tranquilisers, painkillers, vitamins, and oxygen—all substances that had been removed from the medical panoply due to recent advances in medical theory. Reluctantly, your doctor follows his retired colleague’s advice—and miraculously, you start to revive.
After a year of expensive medical treatment, you return to the same robust health you displayed before your inexplicable illness. Triumphant, if somewhat puzzled, your doctor declares you well once more, and releases you from intensive care.
As you stride confidently away from the hospital, you have the misfortune to once again bump into the practitioner of alternative medicine.
“But they haven’t removed the tumour!”, he declares.
…
One shouldn’t have to spell out the details of such an analogy, but in times of widespread denial, one has to:
- You are the economy;
- The tumour is a massive accumulation of private debt;
- Your doctor is Neoclassical Economics, and the retired colleague is a so-called “Keynesian” Economist — who doesn’t know it, since her medical textbooks were poorly written, but he’s actually following another economist called Paul Samuelson, not Keynes (and your doctor’s textbooks are so bad they don’t warrant discussion);
- The alternative medicine practitioner follows Hyman Minsky’s “Financial Instability Hypothesis” (which is based on what Keynes actually did say—as well as the wisdom of Joseph Schumpeter and, in whispers, Karl Marx);
- The moment you hit the pavement is the beginning of the Subprime Crisis; The collapse of Lehman Brothers is the moment when you slip into a coma; and
- The day the doctor takes you off life support and declares all is well … is next month.
The final reason for me being a bear is that I am that practitioner of alternative medicine. Minsky’s “Financial Instability Hypothesis” has been ignored by conventional economists for reasons that are both ideological and delusional. A small band of “Post-Keynesian” economists, of whom I am one, have kept this theory alive.
According to Minsky’s theory:
- Capitalist economies can and do periodically experience financial crises (something that believers in the dominant “Neoclassical” approach to economics vehemently denied until reality—in the form of the Global Financial Crisis—slapped them in the face last year);
- These financial crises are caused by debt-financed speculation on asset prices, which leads to bubbles in asset prices;
- These bubbles must eventually burst, because they add nothing to the economy’s productive capacity while simultaneously increasing the debt-servicing burden the economy faces;
- When they burst, asset prices collapse but the debt remains;
- The attempts by both borrowers and lenders to reduce leverage reduces aggregate demand, causing a recession;
- If the economy survives such a crisis, it can go through the same process again, with another boom driving debt up even higher, followed by yet another crash; but
- Ultimately this process has to lead to a level of debt that is so great that another revival becomes impossible since no-one is willing to take on any more debt. Then a Depression ensues.
That is where we were … in 1987. The great tragedy of today is that naïve Neoclassical economists like Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke allowed this process to continue for another three or more cycles than would have occurred without their rescues.
In 2008, they did it again—only with methods they would have disparaged a mere year earlier (“Rational Expectations Macroeconomics”, a modern neoclassical fad, preaches that government intervention can’t influence the level of economic activity at all—yet another belief that reality has recently crucified). This time, while the rescue has worked, the recovery they expect afterwards can’t happen—because there’s almost no-one left who will willingly take on any more debt.
This time, there’s no re-leveraging way out. The tumour of debt has to be removed.






September 15th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Good to see the ongoing coverage in the papers Steve. All of the government spending we are seeing is just delaying (and worsening, as we know who must pay for it in the end) the inevitable. I noticed Noel Whittaker having a good stab at you in his column in WA’s Sunday Times, having read your piece I can really picture him with a stethoscope, tounge depresser, golf bag and a bank account full from taking kick backs from drug companies. I look forward to the day he has to admit he was wrong again.
Keep up the good work mate,
Cheers,
Aspro
September 15th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Hear hear! This is one of the best financial blogs by miles, because Steve is hugely credible and becoming more so every day, notwithstanding spats and bets, but also most importantly because he takes the considerable time to engage with his readers in a refreshingly non-argumentative undogmatic and non-ideological manner.
All the best mate.
September 15th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Having said all that I don’t see how the debt boil can be lanced by jubilee since a flood of high powered money would immediately pour forth from it. Hyperinflation would ensue, unless at the same time other rules were changed to prevent the economy from leveraging up again.
There must be a better way.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Hi scepticus (and thanks for the previous post!),
I wouldn’t argue for a debt jubilee on its own, nor even a standard “Biblical” issue–something else instead where, for example, principal payments were suspended and principal reduced over time while interest payments were maintained. And you are correct that a jubilee of whatever form is logically equivalent to a monetisation of the debt.
At the minimum I would want a debt jubilee to go hand in hand with a redefinition of capital assets as I’ve argued for here on numerous occasions–making shares last 25 years before redemption, and limiting the maximum secured lending against a property to ten times annual rental income.
Some form of price chaos has to be expected though, whatever is done. One side-effect of the bubble has been an enormous dislocation in prices, not just with overvalued financial assets, but also with drastically overinflated incomes for the financial class, and concomitant price distortions all the way through commodities. Things produced by industrial workers have been far too cheap; those produced by financial wankers (pardon the slip, but frankly I have a hard time regarding most employees in the financial sector as workers these days!) far too expensive.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:06 am
This is one of the great questions for all of history, how to get out of this. For one thing, one persons debt is another persons asset or in many cases their money. I would feel like the intermediaries themselves should go broke first. In the end, I would think it would be difficult to structure something that could be swallowed by anyone other than the people who had their debts wiped out. It is clear that everyone that has something is going to take a haircut on it. Either by a systematic bankruptcy or by a natural one. I would start by transferring the capital position of the intermediaries that are insolvent to the creditors of the intermediaries. This means that the shareholders of the banks that are broke no longer own the banks, the depositors do. The FDIC in the US has no money other than the money in the system to pay losses. The mathematical equation isn’t there. The press and the business news is covering up the FACT that banking as it has been done for 200 years creates depressions and fraud.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Its not all one way traffic. I see coverage today of some research carried out by Dr Joe Flood. At a minimum it does provide a counterbalance to the mainstream oppinion that we are different…..
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,25197,26070043-643,00.html
September 15th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Hi Steve,
I usually like your analogies, but this one was a poor choice. Sets you up as the quack. The alternative medicine guy should have been the ancient practitioner dealing out the untested medicine. Buiter goes on this week about how economic theories are essentially untestable in an experimental setting. That is also the case for many ‘alternative’ therapies, but it is generally not true for modern therapeutics.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Maybe gordon,
But the reality is that non-orthodox economists like myself have been treated as quacks by the profession. I had to be either unfair to modern medicine but realistic about how the economics profession treats Post Keynesians etc., or fair to modern medicine but unrealistic about our current status. I chose the former.
I think Buiter is largely right about the capacity to test economic theories–though I might disagree about the reasons–but there is a way to empirically verify: take predictions of a theory and assess them against a long run of the data. That’s essentially what the Kydland and Prescott, via the use of a Kalman filter, did in their 1990 paper. On that front, Post Keynesian theory–and Minsky in particular–stacks up very well, and Neoclassical theory does poorly.
However, economics is a long way from being an evidence-based discipline–whereas medicine has certainly moved in that direction. My apologies to medicos who were offended by the twists in the analogy!
September 15th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Coincidentally, the Boston Globe has a piece on Hyman Minsky by Stephen Mihm:
Why capitalism fails
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/09/13/why_capitalism_fails/
September 15th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Hi Steve,
A former student of Minsky offers some criticism his theories:
http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/minsky-keynesian-sockpuppet.html
September 15th, 2009 at 11:32 am
I have some agreement with Falkenstein on some points, but not the overall flavour of his entry. He has identified some of Minsky’s weaknesses though–the use of static Kaleckian equations for one, and the lack of attention to the subsets of the data.
This is one reason I’m focusing upon the disaggregated debt data, and the direct role of the financial system in causing the crisis through the targetting of any sector of society that is susceptible to taking on more debt. When you disaggregate the debt data, you do see “Minskian” patterns in business debt, but the aggregate level is swamped by the growth in financial sector debt and household debt.
I also think Falkenstein is underplaying the role of the Federal Reserve in extending this crisis–though that’s something that Minsky could be accused of too. If the Fed hadn’t rescued Wall Street in 1987, I think we would have had a mini-Depression back then, and the aggregate data would have been more consistent with Minsky’s basic model because up until then most of the debt would have been taken on by the non-financial business sector. But with the bubble artificially extended for another two decades, the majority of the debt is now in the financial sector and households.
This is why I am now more extreme in my expectations than Minsky was, and also more extreme than many fellow Post Keynesians–and why I’d join in the Austrian chorus in calling for the Federal Reserve to be castrated (though not abolished since a clearing house between commercial banks is still a necessary part of the system).
September 15th, 2009 at 11:45 am
The sad thing is that I think we have a prime minister who kind of gets it (about uniquely for world government leaders) but is locked out of doing anything more than frantically prop up the system and hope for a miracle by the obscene mess of Australian housing.
And frankly, I don’t know what I’d do in his position. He came into power with Australian housing prices already at two or three times any reasonable level and the huge debt that had allowed those ridiculous prices already in place.
Even touch that and the whole thing is going to come apart in a way that will make the USA housing collapse look like a picnic.
It will devastate the already battered wealth of the soon to retire baby boomers and leave much of the younger population with huge, unplayable debts on houses now worth a fraction what they paid for them. Oh! And collapse the Australian financial system so badly that all the guarantees the government happily handed out will leave it with the choice of being financially broken, or printing money to deliberately induce hyper inflation.
Worse, propping up housing in the mean time by flooding it with government money and by pumping vast numbers of immigrants and much larger numbers of temporary workers into the driest inhabited continent on earth with not much of an export economy outside of mining will only make things worse when the piper finally does have to be paid. – much worse.
What to do? Hell! I’ve already admitted: I don’t have the faintest.
Well… One suggestion: Round up the people at the top who had a hand in causing this and think up some way of imprisoning them for a long time. That way the rest of the population can blame them while carefully forgetting the role their own greed played and we can all feel better.
Then we’ll all be ready to make the sacrifices and put in the work necessary to rebuild things in a war-time sort of spirit. With the right attitude some people actually enjoy being part of this sort of thing.
Err… Folks… That last bit was meant as sort of a joke. Didn’t mean anyone to take it seriously, especially that warm and fuzzy soft fascist I see waiting in the wings till things get so bad she can promise salvation and make her bid for power.
September 15th, 2009 at 11:48 am
I have to agree with gordon, in that ‘alternative medicine’ is alternative for a reason, that is it has not been proven to work, otherwise it would be medicine. Alternative medicine is also not reproducible, not based on models and not based on empirical data. I would think that Steve’s models are based on those three things at least. If one follows the scientific method and fails, then it is still following science and that is what Steve is doing I would hope.
September 15th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Yes, I know–though when I think of alternative medicine I’m predominantly considering physiotherapy and osteopathy, for which I have strong respect (I can feel I’ll start yet another off-topic thread with that comment, but what the heck…). As noted however, I needed some sort of hook, and no analogy is perfect–if it were, it wouldn’t be an analogy but an accurate theory.
It might have been better if I set it in the 18th century, when doctors will still prescribing leeches and the folk wisdom of the witches had been lost. But newspaper articles have a word limit, and there was no room for such embellishments.
September 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Hi Peter,
Actually, ‘alternative medicine’ is sometimes alternative because it is something Big Pharma cannot patent and sell for a thousand dollars a course of treatment. Sometime it is not only known to work, but there are plenty of scientific studies that show it does.
For same strange reason, most doctors are very nervous about recommending anything not pushed by the drug companies. I’ve had very good doctors recommend non-drug company treatments that turned out to be very effective (Evening Primrose Oil, a good Chiropractor) and it can be really weird – like they’re slipping you an illegal drug.
I sort of gather Steve gets treated the same way in economic circles.
September 15th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Have to agree with gordon and peter. I know someone who has colone cancer and the doctors have recommended removal of the infected cells, unfortunately they have decided to go to an alternative doctor because he has convinced them no operation is required. He has recommended fruits, foods and exercise. My uncle used to be a homeopathic freak and died from excessive popping of those pills with alcohol combo. Also, know some alternative doctors who are against immunization. So, personally just could not relate to the analogy and most people will be the same. In Steve case looks like there are few real doctors and most quacks unfortunately the analogy did not convey the same.
September 15th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Unfortunately, being sick is not a no-brainer. Even picking a conventional doctor is fraught with danger: It turns out that individual doctors and surgeons have VERY different success rates. Better be very careful to pick one that has a good success rate with your or your child’s particular problem.
When it comes to alternative practitioners things are much worse – some are total quacks while others cane be quite useful, even covering “holes” in modern medicine as my chiropractor does.
I have the best of both worlds, a good, open minded doctor with a reasonable knowledge of alternative medicine. If conventional medicine is not working so I decide to try something else he can even give me advice on what seems to sometimes work, what is just useless and what is positively dangerous.
September 15th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
G’day Steve,
“Things produced by industrial workers have been far too cheap; those produced by financial wankers (pardon the slip, but frankly I have a hard time regarding most employees in the financial sector as workers these days!) far too expensive.”
Believe it or not there are people who work in the financial sector who follow your work and writings, and who agree with a lot of what you say.
Cheers,
Luke.
September 15th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
It’s hard predicting the future on housing. See the following miss-call by one of the experts.
Adam Carr in the business spectator predicted this morning -
“Against a severe housing shortage, approvals have turned around and lending for construction has been strong. That’s why I’m looking for a 3 per cent rise in dwelling starts on Tuesday (mkt +1.0 per cent)”
Todays news –
“Housing starts slumped 4.1 per cent in the June quarter, with 30,066 total dwelling units commenced.
This follows a fall of 6.3 per cent in the March quarter this year.
The seasonally adjusted estimate for the total number of dwelling units commenced fell 3.7 per cent.
The figure is a 23 per cent drop from the corresponding period last year.”
September 15th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
KBH,
No builder in his right mind wants to build houses. That’s risky (and the bank won’t lend for it). Much better to go off and spruce up the local school. Government payers are a much safer bet, don’t you know?
Law of unintended consequences has been getting a serious work-out since the GFC broke.
September 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Thanks Gamma,
I do believe it, and thanks for the confirmation. I know a lot of people are committed to a world in which they must maintain the facade of agreing with the spin, even though they know it’s BS.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Hi,
I enjoy your blog very much.
Do you think that a return to strong financial regulation, capital controls, and industrial policy will be necessary to rebuild Western economies?
Basically, should we return to an updated version of the Bretton Woods era policies?
I have my own blog where I discuss some of these questions:
Social Democracy for the 21st Century http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/.
September 15th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I guess we now wait for the ’spin’ on the new housing start numbers.
I’m predicting it will be like the USA unemployment figures, “an improvement over the last period, with a reduction in the overall decline … another green shoot”
September 15th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
With such an analogy, perhaps a read of Trick or Treatment (Alternative Medicine on Trial) by Ernst and Singh (Bantam Press 2008) might be informative!
September 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
All, check out this article from yesterday.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26068669-25658,00.html
“Luxury firesales slash prices” The number of luxury properties selling at mortgagee auctions has soared as receivers and banks cut prices
BY UP TO 50 PERCENT….(the important bit)
to meet the market. I can see how the banks and receivers who must sell and who are not in their own personal residences will have to continue this trend. Perhaps the start of something Steve has been predicting? ?Still hard being a bear? Anyhow, they give names, addresses, dates and prices, you can’t ask for better evidence than that.. Watch tis space!!!
September 15th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Steve,
First Solution
How about this idea. A memorandum that all company profits for the next 5 years get shared equally buy all employees. Companies can’t take profit. Neither can they pay off their own debt. Payment of interest is allowed only. This boost to individual income can then be directed into personal debt repayment. Some small companies can be exempt.
Second Solutio
Why we can’t have all countries around the world print money at same percentage of the their own GDP as each other and direct this towards large green projects. Surely this can halt deflation.
(please excuse me if I sound naive-)
September 15th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Frankly,I detest the whole premise of any debt forgiveness at all. If someone cannot pay their debts, let them default, go bankrupt and take their medicine along with the lender. That way something decent will come of all this mess- a long lasting memory of the dangers of excessive debt.
Yes, things may get bad, for some. We have social programmes aplenty that can go a long way to dealing with the fallout from that- to which I would contribute my share no problem.
But, no forgiveness- not a single penny- for those who cannot service their debts. Society in the long run will be better for it.
September 15th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
I strongly disagree with you GSM.
Firstly, there are innocent people who do deserve a debt forgiveness. There is not one size for all. These are non speculatators hard working people deliberately trapped by the Government policy with the Housing scenario.
Most first home buyers have been brain washed that prices are right at current levels and are due to rise. The ones that deserve no debt forgiveness are the ones who speculate. Do you reckon it is not ok for the government to give back First Home Buyers the triple whammy taxes they have charged?
Why should the Banks not be held accountable and hence write of debts without foreclosure after all these guys who have also contributed to the madness because they are one of the beneficiaries.
With 40% of deposit saving, you have no purchasing power because banks have agreed to let someone with 0 to 5% deposit secure a loan with 3 to 14K Mortgage insurance?.
September 15th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
As Michael Hudson put it in one of his interviews the Ant works do all the hard work and pay taxes, the higher ones get away for free. So the ant works should also pay the price again on the flip side because of con men upside? If this is not fraud what is it? Therefore, there needs to be some criteria for debt forgiveness. One size for all not the solution.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Agreed–but not criteria that bog the process down in legalisms.
BTW, the following on deleveraging has just been sent my way:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6190818/US-credit-shrinks-at-Great-Depression-rate-prompting-fears-of-double-dip-recession.html
September 15th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Hi guys,
Steve’s analogy is about ALTERNATIVES and not about quacks. Don’t read too much into the medicine bit!! Even my 15 yo girl at school can determine the ‘gist of the plot’ to somehow debunk these neo-bonobos!!
Perhaps we should start another tread on neutron bombs and air superiorty…
Steve, methinks good work. It’s about getting the message across in layman’s term rather than ….
September 15th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
I wonder where Ambrose is getting his US M3 data from? I had a look an shadow stats http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/money-supply
The US M3 money supply levels do look like a small decline, but the Annual US Money supply growth chart shows the M3 has been slightly positive all year. I am confused, is it just the Annual chart lagging?
September 15th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
China recovery is ‘unstable’, premier Wen tells ‘Summer Davos’ delegates
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6168603/China-recovery-is-unstable-premier-Wen-tells-Summer-Davos-delegates.html
September 15th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Steve said regarding jubilee arrangements: “principal payments were suspended and principal reduced over time while interest payments were maintained. And you are correct that a jubilee of whatever form is logically equivalent to a monetisation of the debt.”
So even a limited jubilee sounds like a limited monetisation. If that is the plan, then the way to do it is for the government to take the debt on its books and gradually monetise it, perhaps initially just by monetising the interest payments on the public deficit. There doesn’t seem to be a better way than that, unless…
“At the minimum I would want a debt jubilee to go hand in hand with a redefinition of capital assets as I’ve argued for here on numerous occasions–making shares last 25 years before redemption, and limiting the maximum secured lending against a property to ten times annual rental income.”
Interestingly, both the jubilee suggestions you make above have a very similar outcome to negative nominal rates. Obviously negative rates result in a reduction in principal. Secondly, negative short term rates of about -1.5% say would result in a rush to the long end of the term structure, still in +ve territory. This would ensure that the most profitable loans are all long term loans, which provides the much needed stabilisation of investment you are looking for, and is the only way of providing the needed capital for crucial energy infrastructure investment.
The lack of loanable funds at the short end would be the perfect outcome to eliminate short term leveraged speculators. Most people think -ve nominal rates would lead to increased speculation and hyperinflation but they won’t because the funds won’t be available, and under conditions of negative nominal rates banks will not create money since they would make a loss, they will simply invest what their depositors have with them and make money on the spreads. Needless to say, this represents a welcome downsizing of the banking industry.
September 15th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Does anyone notice that some of the green shoots have turned slightly brown. IMO there seems to be an element of doubt that this is over, creeping into the MSM.
Inflation nears a five-year low
‘Inflation slid to its lowest level in almost five years during August, official figures showed today.
The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) fell from 1.8 per cent to 1.6 per cent over the month, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It was last lower in November 2004.’
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/inflation-nears-a-fiveyear-low-1787494.html
September 15th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I think that a year on from lehman, people are looking around and asking what has changed. Assuming the general feeling is that little has changed, then perhaps people are coming to question the concept of recovery.
September 15th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Good point scepticus, of course, the anniversary
September 15th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Insightful as ever Dr Keen.
Could personal debt be ’socialised’ by the state. For example, rather than declaring myself bankrupt for my 40,000£ credit card debt, I enter into a contract with the state which buys my debt, in return for which I undertake so many hours of community service (volunteering, picking up litter, helping the elderly), at a cheaper rate than the state would have to pay public employees.
September 15th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Joshua,
Everyone is “innocent”. But most if not all do know math. If those people gamble on asset prices rising and borrow beyond their means to pay , then bad luck. Those same people would quickly pocket the profits from such a gamble, they must also accept the losses.
It is irresponsible in the extreme to forgive debt. The same mentality created the immense moral hazard so well exploited by the big US banks. They knew that all would be “forgiven” one way or another. Has that fixed any problems? Of course not. The same with debt forgiveness- you would teach debtors that a “jubilee” would let them off the hook. The only way I would agree to such a proposition would be for the forgiven to relinquish the asset taking with them their equity, if there is any. Otherwise suffer the consequences of what essentially is a gamble. I know I disagree with Steve on this point – so be it.
And let’s not be naive. the Govt has been brainwashing people for centuries.There are people commenting here who still believe Govt can solve all their problems. That Govt is a benign and moderate influence . It is not, and Crises like this expose what essentially is the eneormity of the lie we have all been fed by Govt especially about debt.
The only way true change can occur is with a real and enduring financial crisis. Of this I am absolutely certain. Absent that, you will see a return to status quo or massive efforts to achieve just that. Whatever the cost (to you/me). Is that what passes for success?
September 15th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
is it just me…… but I can’t read any of the comments, they are all over the top of the RHS side bar…?
September 15th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
mike, assuming your unsing firefox, set your page style to ‘no style’. Under the view menu.
I have the same problem.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
That’s Odd I’m using firefox on win xp and set to ‘basic page style’ and it looks fine, are you on Mac, Unix, or Win Vista
September 15th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
It must be starting to dawn on people that in most of the western world the government is effectively paying their mortgages, and it doesn’t look like changing soon but it can’t last forever.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
If I use IE 6 (which I keep for testing) I get no left or right columns, Google Chrome doesn’t recognise the link color in the style and renders the links blue and Opera 10 looks perfect.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:03 am
Scepticus
First an apology that I have not got back to your last reply to me…I’ll get there one day!
Re negative interst rates and no money being available.
Forgive me if I am totally missing something –
Short term interest rates are set by the Reserve bank operating in the short term money market. So to create negative interest rates they would have to make preetty much infinite money available at the short end.
Sure, no one in their right mind would save at a negative interest rate unless deflation is occurring. But the Reserve would do whatever QE was necessary to create the infinite money at the short end. The Long end would simply collapse in the process.
So, we would have an economy with no savings and hence a chronic CAD (what’s new?!!!but it would be ridiculous), an infinite amount of money chasing whatever speculative assets (sharemarkets and housing…again what’s new?) and goods….hyperinflation!
Pretty much all productive activity would be destroyed.
Yep sure cures deflation!!!!
However I am one of those who still don’t see anything wrong with deflation. The Central Banks lose control and as per Steve that would have to be a damned good thing.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:07 am
sjheyer
Pretty good summary.
I’ve quoted Finster here a few times and at the risk of boring everyone “The answer lies back in time” There is no answer now!
I just disagree re the PM. Whether he sees it or not doesn’t matter. He just does not give a damn either way.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:08 am
vv111y, Steve et al
It is easy to consider different views (e.g. Falkenstien), because everything I have ever read on economics is mostly quackery. Mind you, I think some of what passes as moderm medicine is also quackery. Quacks or alternative remedies or theories appear and are not quickly and completely dismissed when an area of knowledge is defective or unscientific, as in some areas of medicine. We do not see any serious challenge to mainstream physics, for example. Phlogiston, perpetual motion machine and flat earth believers are easily dismissed. Quackery hardly exists in physics.
But it exists in economics, because economics itself is largely quackery, because it is not built on assumptions which have been thoroughly tested: what seems plausible or seems to make sense is considered acceptable. The subject is full of rhetoric and hot air. Unfortunately, the global
financial crisis proved that the intellectual and methodological foundation on which most economists think and build their theories are simply not good enough. Neoclassical equilibrium economics has been proved to be spectacularly inadequate (now even Krugman agrees). It probably does not take a genius to eventually prove mathematically (given reasonable assumptions), with water-tight logic, that neoclassical economics will never be adequate. It is not just neoclassical economics that is defective; it is the whole of economics that is defective.
The Austrians and post-Keynesians (and Minskians), with their alternative perspectives, saw gross disequilibrium and hence concluded unsustainability and eventual collapse. Only people (i.e. nearly everyone else) who were trained to close their eyes to reality world failed to see the gross distortions which took place. But it is much easier to spot flaws in other theories than it is to build theories which are robust enough to survive the simplest Popperian refutations. Most basic and widely accepted assumptions in economics are without empirical foundation (though not necessarily wrong).
I have never seen any empirical validation of supply and demand curves, which is fundamental to nearly all economic theories. How do we construct such curves in any market? If anyone here is convinced about this basic idea from anything they have read please let me know. Without some solid empirical foundation, we cannot pretend to understand markets. Has anyone regularly tested the supposed accounting identities of equilibrium macroeconomics are satisfied? As far as I know the subject of economics is “theory without facts” and “facts without theory”.
Therefore, the science of economics has not yet begun, even with the insights of Keynes or von Mises or Minsky or the mathematics of Samuelson. There is little we know for certain in economics. Does anyone know how many years it took to prove that the speed of light is a constant, independent of the motion of the observer? No one has ever proved anything as permanent in economics, however simple or basic.
So let the games begin! We need to build theories which are hard to refute and the only way to do this is to subject them to constant empirical tests. Anything which cannot be empirical tested is voodoo economics that we have currently. The popular notion that you need to do experiments (which are usually impractical or impossible) to test economic theories is utter nonsense. If it were true, we cannot have the science of astrophysics, or paleontology.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:09 am
Re my post on ’short term’…the Cash Rate is created by the Reserve operating in the overnight money market. Sorry if there was any confusion in what I meant.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:15 am
“Short term interest rates are set by the Reserve bank operating in the short term money market. So to create negative interest rates they would have to make preetty much infinite money available at the short end.”
No, they just need to charge commercial banks to keep reserves on deposit at the central bank, like the riksbank is already doing in sweden. This means the banks must lend that money out or they’ll lose money. In practice banks will pass this onto their customers so customers having short term deposit accounts would get charged interest. In this case the bank continues to make money on the spread of rates, AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T CREATE NEW MONEY FOR SHORT TERM LENDING NOT 100% BACKED BY DEPOSITS. Under steve’s credit circuit model, the system remains stable without new money creation, so this will work fine, albeit with reduced profits for banks.
Currently CBs pay +ve interest on reserves. In fact increasing interest on reserves is one of the methods the fed has put forwards for tightening policy after all the stimulus.
So negative rates can be created by simply adding a negative interest rate on base money (that is reserves at the central bank, and physical currency). This latter has some technical implementation issues, but nothing major.
No new money need be created to achieve this, and negative interest rates would discourage the banks from creating new credit money that wasn’t already in circulation. Instead banks and depositors would take their money and lend at long durations to retain positive rates, which would immediately preclude short term leveraged speculation. There would be a small amount of money available for short term lending at negative rates but only that backed by customer short term deposits, and there would not be much of this since customers are now preferring long duration savings.
September 16th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Thinks!!!