As usual, the latest set of data from the ABS on the economy was “unexpectedly worse” than (neoclassical) economists had been expecting. The consensus was for a 0.2% increase over the month of March, from 5.2 to 5.4 percent. In fact, it leapt by two and a half times as much, to 5.7%.
This was right in line with what I was expecting from a non-orthodox, “Hyman Minsky” point of view. As I have argued in numerous blogs, aggregate demand is the sum of GDP plus the change in debt. Now that our economy is utterly debt-dependent, the debt-financed asset-price bubbles have burst, and debt de-leveraging has begun in earnest, the economy will tank and unemployment will explode as debt-financed spending evaporates.
The key chart I’ve published on this a number of times is the following: it shows the correlation between the contribution the change in private debt makes to aggregate demand and the unemployment rate (the red line is the change in debt, divided by the sum of the change in debt plus GDP; the blue line is unemployment, inverted and plotted on the right hand axis).
As the economy has become more and more debt-dependent–as the ratio of Debt to GDP has risen–this correlation has gone from being trivial to explaining 95% of the level of unemployment.
For those who believe that “Australia is different”, here’s the matching chart for the USA. The only difference is one of time: they began their decline in this Depression about a year before we did. But we are rapidly catching up.
The dramatic deterioration in the economy comes as a surprise to conventional “neoclassical” economists because they exclude debt (and money) from their model of how the economy works. This failed model of the operations of a market economy is why they are incapable of explaining the economy’s behaviour today.
With the debt contribution to demand now plummeting, unemployment will rise to levels that are unprecedented in the post WWII period–and they may even rival the Great Depression.
Attempts to inflate our way out of this via either government spending or quantitative easing will also fail.
The sheer scale of private debt de-leveraging swamps the government’s pump priming, while there is so much debt relative to government created money that the latter will have to be increased by astronomical amounts–and given to those in debt, rather than to the banks–to counter the collapse in demand caused by private deleveraging.
To labour a comparison I’ve made numerous times, Rudd’s stimulus package will inject $42 billion into the economy, but a 5% reduction in debt by the private sector will remove $100 billion from it.
Even the slowdown in debt accumulation will swamp the government’s stimulus. In 2007-08, the last year of our debt bubble, private debt rose by $259 billion–adding 20% to aggregate demand. The fall of this to zero–a simple stabilisation of private debt–will remove 20% of demand from the economy. This is what is causing unemployment to explode now.
On the monetary front, Bernanke has literally doubled government-created money in the USA in a matter of months, but even so the ratio of private debt to this is close to 30 to 1. He’d need to create twenty times as much (and give it to the debtors to cancel their debts, rather than to the banks in a futile attempt to maintain their facade of solvency) before there would be any chance of a monetary stimulus working. I simply can’t see him trying it.
Even if he did (and our local RBA followed suit), and even if governments maintained the scale of fiscal stimulus they are now imparting, there would still be the reality (for the USA, the UK and Australia, and some European nations) that, courtesy of the globalisation of production, they no longer have the productive capacity to employ those who are going to be thrown into unemployment via this debt-driven collapse.
The problems caused by the neoclassical economic philosophy of the last 40 years were papered over by debt. To steal a phrase from Warren Buffett, now that debt is collapsing–and debt-finance can no longer be used to purchase cheap Asian goods–the nakedness of that philosophy will be exposed by the outgoing tide.
Australia, which has for some time deluded itself that it is different to the rest of the world, and will therefore come through this crisis relatively unscathed, may in fact be the most naked of all.
For those who might like to republish this elsewhere, here’s a link to an RTF file that should make it easier to grab the graphics. It is best viewed in “Normal” rather than “Print” layout since Mathcad stuffs up the layout somewhat.






April 9th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Good on ya Steve,
Keep punching them right in the head. Eventually they will realise that their nose, an eye socket and their skull is broken. Unfortunately they won’t fully wake up until their brains are leaking out and it is too late for them.
Not only are people losing jobs rapidly, new job creation is a thing of the past. I am hearing many stories of very talented people going for multiple interviews only to find that the “new position has run out of funding”. This double whammy effect will see unemployment rocket over 10% next year. Remember that 105 is the fake unemployment number where working 1 hour per fortnight counts one as employed. The real rate will be will over 20% early next year.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Thanks Dr Keen, (and Bullturnedbear)I am one of those unemployed (FIRE ind.)and have sent out 145 ‘CV’’s!! “…unfortunately they won’t fully wake up…” Craig James (Commsec today on FOX) quoted “..the figure (unemployment) is taken from a sample… it could be 50,000 jobs lost or it could be 50,000 jobs GAINED!!!” “AUSTRALIA HAS A CRISIS OF CONFIDENCE…” Is Mr James an economist folks??? (with a degree and everything??) YES, I AGREE “UNTIL THEIR BRAINS ARE LEAKING OUT…” and so say all of us!!
April 9th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
The deputy PM was just quoting figures from other countries which put them all higher than Australias. But these other countries have much more realistic definition of “unemployment”, here it is less than two hours ber fortnight of paid or unpaid work.
By today’s Australian fraudulent criterion Australian unemployment during the great depression may have peaked at much less than the current 5.7%. Most people during the GD had at least one day’s work per week.
I know the definition that the ABS uses is derived from the ILO but that illustrates just how much the ILO has become a corporation with no concern for workers.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Steve,
Do you have an opinion about the possible divergence between asset price deflation (for example housing) and consumer price deflation? Do you think it is possible that in the deleveraging scenario we might see falling or stable asset prices, combined with rising consumer prices (as well as high unemployment and low growth)?
April 9th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Good point, BTB, re the virtual reality underlying the official unemployment figures.
In the US they go to great lengths to disguise the true figures as uncovered by sites like:
http://www.shadowstats.com
The highest official rate of US unemployment (U6) is 15.6%, not the official figure of 8.5% (U3) which excludes people who have given up looking for work among other things. But shadowstats estimates the true figure to be 19.8%.
It would be really useful if someone could explain the alternative ways to measure Australian unemployment (with links if possible).
It was obvious that Nathan Rees’s edict that under 17s shalt not enter the dole queue was a transparent measure to “Maximise the Potential of Our Young Politicians”…
http://www.schools.nsw.edu.au/news/announcements/yr2009/jan/schoolage.php
April 9th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Steve,
“I simply can’t see him trying it.”
Have you ever been to a town with 30% unemployment rate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unemployment_rate_in_Pomeranian_Voivodeship_End_of_2006.png
I can’t see it in the US simply because they have too many weapons.
So they have to pull that rabbit out of a hat. Even if it is bloody hard to pull it.
“In here” ?
The Government will introduce a tax on early load repayments and everything will be back to normal. The tax will be just as unjust as negative gearing but who cares… (just a bad joke)
April 9th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
sorry not load repayments but loan repayments
April 9th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Gamma,
not only is it a possibility, its already occuring in the UK. Asset prices, notably real estate has fallen / still falling…
Meanwhile take a look at the following concerning the cost of everyday living..
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article6058301.ece
Steve can no doubt comment with stronger theoretical rigour than myself – but im sure in a full blown deflationary scenario, it is possible to get all manner of perverse outcomes.
April 9th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Rising unemployment?! Quick – someone tell Ric Battelino!
In the famous words oft-quoted on CR: “Hoocoodanode?”
April 9th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
@Steve: “To steal a phrase from Warren Buffett, now that debt is collapsing–and debt-finance can no longer be used to purchase cheap Asian goods–the nakedness of that philosophy will be exposed by the outgoing tide.”
Or from his most recent missive … “… it appears Wall St was a nudist beach”. Touche.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
i wouldnt discount the 200 or 300 billion dollar path to hell just yet.
surely a government hell bent on survival would be sorely tempted to create that amount of demand for credit, especially since according to some, the world seems quite happy to give it to us.
all the unemployed bankers out there might have to pick up a shovel and learn how to lay bricks
April 9th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
mahaish ,
I have posted a link to the map of unemployment in Northern Poland on a purpose. I wanted to illustrate how uneployment spreads around and affects certain groups of society. If you check Gdansk the situation there might be quite good even by Australian standars. If you go to small towns inhabited by poorly educated and eldery people with no social mobility – there is not much hope for them. These groups of people are still affected by the collapse of the Communist system in 1989. They couldn’t adjust.
In Sydney former bankers living in Mosman will have fewer problems with finding jobs than shop assistants or warehouse workers from Mount Druitt. Some ethnic groups are primed to be disadvantaged as well. Again – these people who probably contributed the least to the crisis will have to pay the highest price.
Regarding the US – if it really gets that bad I don’t believe the political stability will be maintained.
April 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
So where does the downward spiral end ? When all debts have defaulted ? Can the economy keep going without any debt, or will we have a revolution well before that ? When ?
April 9th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Steve,
Another great post – but you are depressing us a bit with all this negative talk – so here is something on the positive side.
Australia’s net Foreign Investment Position is $714 billion. That equates to $77,627 per employed Australian (assuming PT workers work half normal hours on average). The average worker works for around 40 years so the average time left for all workers is around 20 years. To pay off our foreign debt over those 20 years will take $7,800 per year (IR of 8%).
However, to pay off our debt we first need to eliminate our Current Account Deficit and stop borrowing. Australia’s Current Account Deficit over the past five years has averaged $56 billion each year (or $6,065 for each worker).
Australia needs to increase its exports (which won’t happen in a GFC)or reduce imports if it wants to pay off its debt – to the tune of $13,865 per worker.
Australia Imports each year $19,570 per worker ($180 billion per year on average over 5 years).
To pay off our debts all we need to do is make sure our exports do not fall from current levels and cut imports by 71% or $13,865 per worker for the next 20 years.
Problem solved – Debt built up over 50 years (except one)- isn’t such a bad thing after all.
I am sure all the neoclassical economists out there already know all this and have a plan in their bag of tricks to get out of this one.
As with alcoholics and drug addicts – before they can move along the path to recovery they have to acknowledge that they have a problem.
April 9th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
It can keep going DaveK, and the downward spiral will end after the debt-financed contribution has dropped substantially; but that could be once unemployment is in the 15-25% range, and by that time the political system could be in upheaval.
Check my “Roving Cavaliers” post to see the dynamic of a credit crunch leading to a blowout in unemployment that eventually turns around, then stabilises at a higher level than originally. What I can’t model of course is the political response to a situation like that (and i also don’t yet have debt deleveraging in that model, so if anything it understates what we might face).
April 9th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
That’s the problem with this crisis–the degree of globalisation of production means that there can be “imported inflation” at the same time as the general price level deflates.
One thing that will confound this is a substantial shift in consumer spending. The weights in the CPI are based on recent consumption patterns, and they will change mightily as the crisis unfolds. So the reported rate of inflation will be much higher than the actual one because of forced substitution. This will favour domestic manufacturers everywhere (except those countries whose currencies rise comparatively–like probably Japan), but be “the worst of both worlds” because while inflation is recorded, cash flows will collapse because of deflation.
April 9th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Possible, but deflation will be the rule–complicated by the globalisation and radical reweighting of consumption effects I just noted.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
god i hope your wrong steve, but i have this uneasy feeling that even if you are half right it looks very ugly.
all i want is a quiet peacefull life.
if this goes the way you think it is, its going to be 1913 to 1950 all over again. not too many slow news days.
looks like i might have to buy the guns and ammo after all
April 9th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
For those who are after a more accurate figure on unemployment – how does 11.7% sound.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25314387-12377,00.html
April 9th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
steve i’m curious,
has credit growth stabilised this year or is it still growing . wheres the best place to access this info so all of us can keep an eye on it.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Mahaish,
I don’t know where Steve gets his data from but there are a number of charts maintained on a monthly basis by the RBA that show credit and at the moment credit looks like it has fallen off a cliff (first page).
http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/financial_indicators.pdf
April 9th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
thanks jim, see what you mean!
i’m wondering steve,
were the government to go on a massive infrastructure lead credit binge, would the production capacity constraints you mentioned be in play then
April 9th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
I don’t know much about Australian economy, if not for Steve. I’m from the US, btw. But Steve’s mention about some possibility of political upheaval in Australia is really scary. If it can cause political threat even in Australia, then we should begin to look at China.
That is a country which requires 8% growth to keep unemployment at bay. Even 6% growth is already considered a disaster.
Well, what about negative growth? That is a very real question. Bad debts are mounting, office places in Beijing are in massive oversupply (14 years of supply!), hundreds of thousands factories going bust.
On bad debts, there is an interesting article below:
1.
http://www.crikey.com.au/Business/20090310-Holes-in-the-silk-curtain.html
>> bad debts mounting: in 2003 NPL was 16.5% China GDP, in 2006 NPL was 40% GDP, exceeding China’s legendary FX reserves. It then was “wiped out” using a kind of Chinese SIV, to 2.81%. Now it’s expected to rise again to 20%. Remember that the 40% was not really “cleaned”, rather it’s still there, just “hidden”.
2. A cross reference, by Nicholas Vardy
http://www.theglobalguru.com/article.php?id=95&offer=GURU001
3. Some contrarian views, about possibilities that China might be the next Soviet Union.
http://stockideas.org/content/view/1133/80/
April 9th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
so you think we might get another taiping rebellion or two in china, rogerjarema
entirely possible.
internal power struggles and confusionism may come back to haunt the chinese just like it did 600 years ago when they had the opportunity to rule over the rest of us primitives who were barely waking up from the stupor of the dark ages and the consequenses of the crusades.
but dont forget the US went through a war of independence, a civil war, an indian war, a war with mexico, several economic collapses, the robber barons etc etc.
it may be that the chinese will suffer some major setbacks on their way to building their next economic treasure fleet. but i think it will be built, and this time they will stick around and prove to the rest of us why they call china the middle kingdom and the centre of the world.
unfortunately all of us on this blog will probably be dead by the time such events come to pass
April 9th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Firstly thank you to everyone here for your humourous, but deadly accurate, comments on this thread. On a day like today i need a laugh from somewhere!
Steve said
The dramatic deterioration in the economy comes as a surprise to conventional “neoclassical” economists because they exclude debt (and money) from their model of how the economy works. This failed model of the operations of a market economy is why they are incapable of explaining the economy’s behaviour today.”
I sometimes think Steve is exaggerating about this. I keep thinking “How could anyone be so stupid?”
I just watched Warwick McKibbin on the 7.30 Report. Steve is absolutely correct and they are indeed that stupid!!! Here is a member of the Reserve Bank Board who still thinks the amount of debt we have is irrelevant. Watching it i felt quite ill.
What is going on? Kerry O’Brien just sat there like a puppet and asked him a few “patsy” questions.
The thinking by everyone, including the Govt, seems to be “Well it’s not our fault! It’s the GFC! Those big bad Americans!”
It seems like noone is thinking “Hell if we had not cultivated all this debt over all these years, we would not be in such a pickle”
I am surprised about this. The ALP could have (correctly) painted the Libs with gross economic mismanagement and consigned them to the political dustbin for 20 years. It seems obvious. So why didn’t they? Answer – because they have not got a clue in the world what is really happening. So, it follows, none of the Senior advisers to the Govt have a clue!!!!!! All that sems to be happening is that the PTB send out their lackeys to take stupid potshots at Steve Keen from afar!
Now I don’t know about all of you, but the notion, that all the Senior Govt advisers have not got a clue, scares the hell out of me.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
On the unemployment figures. Alan Kohler presented some ominous ANZ job ads graphs some time ago. Those graphs and Steve’s truly ominous debt contribution/unemployment graphs seem to have more predictive power than a Japanese train timetable. Which is an unhappy thought given their current messages.
On the 7.30 report McKibbin interview, I had to turn it off part way through. Reasonable sounding comments (Japanese mistakes with banks) were given equal prominence with comments that recent changes of government through the world had been unfortunate and “fish hooks” in the charts looked promising. Too much for my poor brain to make sense of.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
hey outback,
remember faulty towers.
“what ever you do, dont mention the war”
well in australian political circles its
“what ever you do, dont mention the debt”
its an indication of the sensitivity and sometimes downright fear that all politicians and their advisors feel about the issue.
they all live in fear and at best denial that people such as steve has rung the bell on their mal adminstration
April 9th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
It was pathetic, wasn’t it? Notice that he’s on my Brickbats page too for the comment that he wasn’t sure that there was a crisis…
April 9th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
You know what, I have to admit that so many ‘experts’ have so many different opinions on where this GFC (global fried chicken) is headed. Some say inflation some say deflation some say gold and silver some say stocks some say we are almost out of the woods some say this will be the worst economic collapse of all time some say now is the time to buy a house some say no way some say QE and stimulus packages and low interest rates will work, and then worry about inflation down the track and some say nothing will work, some say Australia will be OK some say we are in the financial mess just as bad….
I still can’t get over the fact that Bernanke Bush and Paulson were all singing the praises of the US economy and then 2 weeks later Paulson is literaly on his knees begging for 700 billion smackers for the ‘bait and switch’ As for Bernanke, I don’t believe a word he says…he needs some vitamins or something, always looks miserable…For the record, I think this will be worse than the great depression. Doug Casey has named it the greater depression.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
G’day mahaish
Thanks!!!!! Like I say i need some laughs today and I sure got one there.
You might be right. Some sort of conspiracy of silence seems to be spreading on it.
I have written detailed submissions to members of parliament on both sides about this!…complete with RBA stats and the sort of analysis as presented by Statswatcher. I don’t even rate an AUTOMATED reply!
I guess if someone with Steve’s stature can’t rate any recognition by members of either side, what the hell chance have the rest of us got!!!
April 9th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
The Outback Oracle,
I say this with several years of personal experience in the public sector. In my opinion, most (greater than 90%) people are there for career reasons, just a job until a better one comes
along. Very few are there for real passion for public service. Many are disillusioned by the bureaucracy which discourages new ideas, because they threatened established ones particularly held by the top dog. In my opinion, the finance and economics policies are based on the following assumptions (a perverted form of rational expectation):
“The truth doesn’t matter, because nobody know what it is anyway. The important thing is perception. If everyone perceives everything will be fine, then everything will be fine. The key thing is to maintain confidence. To achieve this, we can tell as many lies as it takes to convince the people “all is well”. If people knew the truth, there will be chaos, with dire and unpredictable consequences which are not in the interest of the people.”
Governments make all sorts of nonsense statements and forecasts and no one, least of all the media, is willing to pull them up on it. For exmaple, in November 2008, Ken Henry revised the economic growth forecast upwards from 1.5% by RBA to 2% by the Treasury for 2008/2009 fiscal year. What chance has it of being remotely accurate? All in the name of maintaining confidence or is it really they have no clue? Ken Henry is about revamp the tax system. God help us!
In my view the whole sytem is patronizing and immoral, because it provides a pretext for manipulation, unwarranted paternalism and systemic corruption. “Nothing is true until it has been officially denied”. Senior government advisers have not got a clue, because those who have any clue have been driven out from their ranks, ostricized because they dared to question accepted wisdom and have exercised independent and critical thought! Look through the RBA research papers you’ll see nothing but neoclassical economics. No wonder no one at RBA or for that matter other central banks saw the GFC coming. This sytem has got to change.
The Outback Oracle, you should be scared, be very scared. Chiswick, you and everyone else are confused, because governments are confused and their loose cannons are going off all over the place.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Hi Lyonwiss….my house went on the market yesterday…so I am putting my money where my mouth is.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
wonder what those fish hooks will be dragging up from the murky depths of the sea of debt .
more bankrupt economic policy and perhaps the dead weight anchor of neo classical economics
April 9th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I guess you have heard this sort of thing. A member of my family once worked for the RBA after a normal Economics education from one of the top Unis in Aus. He is as seriously smart… as intelligent as anyone I have ever known.
His response to my concerns about our Foreign debt and its implications for our economy (and society) was “But it will just be taken up in the value of the currency”
I never did quite figure out what “taken up” meant.
So Steve again is right…I appreciate the wisdom of your comments Lyonwiss and the problem is just not the Govt etc. It is the whole education of “Economists”
(We’ll leave restructuring society to another day!)
April 9th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Chiswick I sold my house last year. However I have a business which i know, for my own welfare, i ought to shut down (particularly after listening to McKibbin tonight). I can’t. I employ people who work damned hard. But…I would if I could!!!!
April 9th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
How do you find renting Outback?
And I understand about your employees, it means you have a heart….but family first is my motto.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I’m (unfortunately) at an age where my family have their own lives.
I’m on the Sunshine Coast. Renting is a bit of a hassle in that you can get pushed from pillar to post as people sell houses from under you.
I’d say renting in the lower part of the market is hell. About 20 people show up to rent a virtual hell hole. I do Ok financially and, with the proceeds of the house invested, I can afford to pay a little more for the area. So that restricts the number of applicants greatly. Currently I live in a sensational house, great views, worth a bit under a million and pay $410 per week. (It’s got to be like a 1% return to the owners) Further you could not raise young children in this house – too dangerous. So again the owners find it difficult to rent.
So life for me is pretty good. But I can imagine for others renting it would be hell. As per the conversation in another thread,
even for me, who can afford a bit more, and who, from a future potential to invest is concerned, the behaviour of the real estate people is just disgraceful. They are just plain rude to people who rent. Fortunately, for this house, I rented direct from the owners and have a great relationship with them.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Thanks for sharing that…it has always been my dream to have a house overlooking the ocean.
The bit that plays on my mind is the fact that I will not get one brass razoo back from renting, where as you are cutting into the priciple when you have a mortgage…it is only the fact that I believe property prices will drop hard. I helped a lady move in western Sydney not long ago and there were many people trying to rent the sane dump, so there is a problem that is for sure.
April 10th, 2009 at 12:56 am
Steve, I’m a philosopher, of sorts.
I’ve not yet bought a home, having rented for many years. I’d like to buy one, and have a sizeable deposit, but I’d like to buy smart. The so-called boom of recent years hasn’t benefited me in any way.
My prediction is that the housing market will start to drop, but not actually ‘crash’. Do you think it is reasonable to predict a 10% drop in, say, 12 months? What advice would you give to a potential first home buyer? I realise you can’t give particularly personalised advice, but any ideas would be muchly appreciated.
April 10th, 2009 at 1:28 am
hi there, mahaish.
i’m not quite familiar w/ the details of chinese history. but rebellions are already happening there, even in 2006 when their economy was peaking. as we should expect from communism, those news are suppressed.
china’s growth is based on very shaky foundations: growth for the sake of growth (ever wondered how china could grow 10% a year for the last 20 years, just like clockwork?!). the result is mounting NPL, massive corruption, massive overcapacity, unproductivity, etc.
i have an article from stratfor about china’s growth philosophy, it was from january 2006. it is excellent article that gives insight on describing what china’s growth actually is and the growth philosophies of jiang zemin & hu jintao. if you’re interested, e-mail me @ roger.jarema@yahoo.com. the article isn’t free, so giving links is useless.
never in history communism/socialism successfully bring to stable economic prosperity. socialism/communism always lead to unproductive economic growth, with very shaky fundamentals… ultimately this unhealthy growth must be liquidated and the process is extremely painful. it might take down a dynasty, in this case it may well take out mao’s dynasty.
April 10th, 2009 at 1:33 am
Thanks very much Steve. Excellent post.
I too watched the interview with McKibbon of the RBA. All I could think of was is if this is the calibre of the economic thinking we have at the RBA (and I am still hearing the drivel coming from Battelino as well), we had all better really start battening down the hatches. Because we are well and truly f****d.
It was appalling.Their plan is simple in it’s stupidity- if only we could lend more (meaning hopefully Aussies are stupid enough to borrow more),the economy would be A OK.
I do hope he reads this blog. Your charts above on Debt Contribution to GDP would no doubt scare the living crap out of him- and probably are. With every economist and his dog (except Prof Keen)revising up their unemployment projections after today’s horror numbers, while they revise down GDP forcasts and Govt revenues, expect to see the usual talking heads on tv tomorrow telling us how “unemployment is a lagging indicator” etc etc.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Did anyone catch the lateline business interview with the london stockbroker, where he talked about some 6% growth figure in Korea for the last month. He said this indicated that the at least for asia the recesion and stockmarket rout had bottomed out and that now was the time for investors to return to the market and take some risks. He was expecting a sustained stockmarket recovery from now.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:26 am
thanks rogerjarama, i think i’m going to call you j rog, got a nice ring to it.
yes you are right, the chinese as the marxist would like to say have many internal contradictions of their own to deal with.
the rule of law , reform of state run industry , and the doosy of them all, democracy.
the yanks were lucky in that they inherited british jurisprudence. never the less they still had to deal with the likes of the robber barons. by the looks of it , they seem to have a brand new batch to deal with, so stay tuned for FCC mk II
china no doubt has many robber barons of its own to deal with, some of them are probably in power. they are going to have to come up with a legal framework that the rest of the world can trust.
its interesting to look at comparative studies on economic development in china and soviet style economies over the last 30 years.
seems the biggest problem for former soviet style economies was the legacy of soviet style industrialisation. trying to build a new industrial architecture by either dismantling or working around the old one, has proved difficult and expensive. ask the germans
i gather, china on the other hand hadnt gone, as far down the road of heavy soviet style industrialisation. so over the last 30 years they have had a relatively clean sheet on which to build. they could have their very own demographic shift just like the british did at the start of the industrial revolution.
obviously given recent events , this is now in jeapody
even given their faults they have still spectacularly out performed former soviet block countries
i suppose in a nut shell, it may be, the chinese werent the rabid industrial socialists we thought they were.
but you are right , the history of the next 30 years is going to be not only about the downfall of the current dominant paradimes and ideologies, but also of many political structure and institutions, and that includes the ones in china.
the worlds going to be such a cheerfull place over the next 30 years, not
April 10th, 2009 at 3:31 am
hi lyonwiss, do sympathise
but a public servant with ideas,
sir humphrey would be appalled
April 10th, 2009 at 8:34 am
So what? I have the cheapest house in the suburb. I am going to lose the least.
I have done it before. I sold my apartment in Poland before the property boom started there. I didn’t have to sell when I was moving to Sydney.
That’s why I started my interest in macroeconomy.
Life is about informed losing.
April 10th, 2009 at 9:58 am
With regards to politicians not fronting up to the economic reality of overindebtedness, I think the most important aspect is their short term view. Lets face it, a leader is not gauranteed any tenure in the position – the electoral cycle is only 3 years, but he/she could be outed even by a “compatriot”. So they are always, without fail, concerned about the here and now.
As far as a politician is concerned, the economy was working just fine up until 18 months ago – so they don’t want to think about all of the structural issues (if they can avoid it), they would just like to get it back to the way it was.
What’s more, the people to whom they’ve sold their soulds to get them where they are – the power brokers and vested interests – are the people who were benefitting from the system the way it was. They don’t want structural changes to the economy or society for they don’t want to chance not be the top dogs anymore in the new order – they want their man/woman to give more of what they’ve had for the last few decades because that game suites them very nicely thank you.
So there is a massive incentive in our system to just keep things rolling the way they were – that is why the structural issues of our personal indebtedness will not be tackled until it is absolutely impossible to go back to where we came from. That is probably where we are at now….
Ultimately, I think we need some reforms in our political system – that’s why a few weeks ago I was attempting to initiate discussion about ways to force politicians and their parties to focus on the longer term.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Warwick McKibbin’s views are set out in some detail in a speech he gave to the Lowy Institute on Wednesday at http://www.lowyinstitute.org, where both the audio and slides are available.
Whilst I can see the weaknesses in his arguments (from the Keen perspective), in that debt does not exist in his models and M0 appears to translate seamlessly into M3, I do find his emphasis upon international structural forces, to be useful, particularly as it relates to predictions regarding components of the world economy emerging from the current downturn.
In addition, the irony is that from his risk adjusted price of capital driven perspective (which is driving deleveraging in his world), he has one similar conclusion to the Minskian perspective, namely the forces at work are so large that traditional fiscal and monetary policy may not work, albeit for different reasons.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:43 am
homes4aussies,
The most fundamental way to reform politics is to democratize the business sector. It is Australia’s millionaires, billionaires, corporations and corporate executives who are the ultimate problem, not the politicians.
Politicians, like anyone else, are motivated by incentives. The business class can provide some very powerful incentives. It is this class that has the most powerful and wealthy lobbies who represent the rich so they can maximize their rent-seeking. They want to keep the status-quo.
There are plenty of good ideas that have been put forward (such as eliminating negative gearing and superannuation tax breaks) but changing them is seen as “politically impossible” which means that power and privilege are opposed. The rich should not be able to get in the way of politicians crafting sound policy, but they do.
Attempting to attenuate the shadow (politics) will not change the underlying substance (the business class). Eliminating the business class as a system of power is the most fundamental reform that will have effective and positive outcomes upon the political process.
April 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Hi Lyonwiss
What a great passage:
“In my view the whole system is patronizing and immoral, because it provides a pretext for manipulation, unwarranted paternalism and systemic corruption… Senior government advisers have not got a clue, because those who have any clue have been driven out from their ranks, ostricized because they dared to question accepted wisdom and have exercised independent and critical thought!”
I couldn’t agree with you more. The threat of dismissal, financial ruin, public vilification and the likely lack of support from frightened colleagues ensures that everyone tows the party line.
Those without the intellectual capacity to recognise dogma or blatant manipulation by vested interests have a competitive advantage in the race up the slippery pole. Integrity is also a career-threatening affliction best avoided by the ambitious.
I’ve just finished reading the autobiography of Philip Arantz – the NSW policeman who was carted off to a mental asylum when he leaked (accurate) crime statistics in 1971 that had been supressed by the Police Commissioner and Premier. He was later sacked and didn’t receive any pension despite 20 years of effective protest, often in the media spotlight.
Let that be a lesson to any RBA official who dares to question neo-classical economics!
April 10th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Chiswick, Outback Oracle, etc – I attempt to look at the renting v buying issue much the same way that Warren Buffett looks at his capital allocation policy. I don’t need a constant market update to make me feel better or worse about my decision – why should it – the market isn’t rational in any case.
I’ve done my analysis and I’m confident in it – renting is far cheaper than buying while prices are anywhere near these levels. I know that pricing becomes irrational from time to time, but over the medium to long term there is always a reversion to the mean.
Because it is a personal aim for my wife and I to own a family home, when conditions are more favourable – when that reversion to mean occurs – we will do that.
With regards renting, it’s my firm view that the lack of security in the rental market here is no accident – it is a part of the structure of gently (or not) pushing people onto the “property ladder”. If we had a system like in Germany, for instance, where you can really make a rental property your home – by long tenures, secure tenant rights, and the freedom to do major refurbishments – the long term premium of ownership over renting would be reduced.