The import of Gerard Henderson’s diatribe in today’s SMH is that the media has done a “soft” job on my views, which have only gained notoriety because of the extreme prediction I have made—about the forthcoming economic downturn qualifying as not merely a recession, but a Depression. It seems I’ve only got attention because of my extreme views, while the media has let the side down by doing a “tabloid” job only and not subjecting my views to scrutiny.
In fact, as many in the media know, I have gained attention because of my Debtwatch Report, which will be two years old as of the next issue (No. 28, to be published in November the day before the RBA meeting). The journalists who have reported my views—including of course Kerry O’Brien, who gets special attention from Gerard in his mockumentary—have read my analysis for two years now. I saw no sign of any attention to the analysis behind my predictions in Henderson’s piece—apart from possibly a “just in case” concession towards the end where he noted that “His predictions of a debt-induced decade-long depression … may be correct.”
In that case, the commentator who deserves the approbrium for “tabloid” journalism is Henderson himself, and not the ABC nor the Daily Telegraph, nor Sixty Minutes. They, after all, read my research, have quizzed me extensively about it, and made the decision based on investigative journalism that my views deserved coverage.
For this, I applaud them—for standing up for the principles of the Fourth Estate. Standard economic commentary has been dominated by the cheerleaders for the policies which have led to this crisis, while the authorities themselves and the academic profession of economics itself have turned a blind eye to any arguments that questioned the mantra in favour of deregulated finance.
I know this from extensive experience. I have made five applications for ARC funding to investigate the dynamics of debt-deflations and Depressions in the last ten years; all have been unsuccessful (including one time when I topped UWS researchers on the ARC’s then published referees’ point scores, after which seven UWS researchers received funding—but I was not one of them).
I made a submission to the Wallis Committee in July 1996, in which I warned that securitisation of loans could lead to a crisis exactly like the Subprime crisis that has now unfolded—and of course my comments were ignored.
I wrote to the RBA in June 1998 offering to hold a seminar on the “Financial Instability Hypothesis”, which is the foundation of my argument that we are likely to experience a Great Depression. The offer was declined.
As has often been said, official channels are often clogged to make sure information and criticism doesn’t get listened to. When I saw the debt that Australia’s speculative bubble in real estate (and belatedly shares) had got us into, I decided to turn to the journalistic profession to raise the alarm. To their credit, since I made a good case and the empirical evidence was compelling, journalists listened to me.
So Gerard, maybe you should do some investigative journalism now too. Go to my blog www.debtdeflation.com/blogs, where you will find Debtwatch Reports going back to November 2006, and academic papers on debt deflation published as long ago as 1995 (maybe even read Debunking Economics). And if you’d like to take a real risk and play the ball rather than the man, I’m more than willing to give a seminar on debt deflation at your Sydney Institute.
Over to you.






October 21st, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Hi Steve,
Don’t take any of that crap personally. Just about every other economist and analyst that gets reported makes up some description of what has happened or what “is happening” after the event.
There is no question you have made your predictions and put them on the public record. To date your predictions are coming to pass. Time will tell if we go into depression or not (I also believe we will).
Either way the rest of the analysts will stay on safe ground and keep making up a poorly informed description of what has already happened.
October 21st, 2008 at 12:47 pm
It probably doesn’t help that you have accused the median economics academic of being mathematically illiterate, and unable to master dynamic systems. It may or may not be a valid point, but it is bad politics.
On the other hand, the public is well aware that house prices are too high, and that new buyers are losing the ability to pay higher (versus share housing, renting, and other substitutes).
October 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Steve, You have summed up the situation perfectly. Australia appears to have been “dumbed down” to such an extent that criticism of the party line in this country is almost non existent. I am a recent immigrant to Oz and I have to say that I have been shocked at the almost blissful ignorance of the population. It seems that Oz is far from the ‘lucky country” (whatever that means) and more a stupid country filled with (on the whole) stupid people. Strangely the Brisbane Times (another Fairfax rag) ran a story about Hans Redeker – head of foreign exchange strategy at BNP Paribas, Europe’s biggest investment bank, predicted: “The Aussie is going down, big time.” His views pretty much echo yours. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2008/10/19/1224351113115.html
October 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
It seems that economics is different, any other area people make predictions and then they are tested and if they don’t work, somebody had better find a better idea. I think anyone who has seen this unfold, from the era of debt is OK (I can remember Gittins writing about how it was OK because there were a lot of opportunities out there) to the government effectively propping up banks in most of the western world has not been overly impressed by economists in general predictions. Apparently now it is going to be a recession but not a big one, except that the Chinese economy that was going to drag us through this is now having their own problems. Not unexpected when their interest rates have been kept similar to the inflation rate. Speculative construction of factories based on assumptions of an expanding economy.
What I can see is that the financial instability hypothesis does have a theoretical foundation whereas standard economics has some very dodgy assumptions or “Equilibrium, What Equilibrium ?” to misquote the Supertramp album. I wouldn’t want to believe if I had a huge mortgage either. This is really the biggest case of denial ever. Not surprising when may people are looking at their equity being totally wiped out.
October 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Hello Steve
What evidence has Henderson presented? what are his credentials? What does he know anyway.
I am giving up reading newspapers, they used to be full of news with a small and well considered editorial content. Now they are full of editorial content written by people who are better at writing than researching a topic and have no particular expertise on the topics on which they wax eloquent. There is very little news and this is sometimes buried in any case in ignorant opinion.
One bias that these people have is to ignore bad news or predictions. Henderson may have seen and promptly forgotten your comments of 10 years ago because he did not like them and they would not have been attractive to his readers.
Your attempts to gain funding have been dealt with in the same ignorant way. But is this not the cause of the bubble? and the current looming disaster? Intelligent consideration of a full range of opinions and reliable data may have given a better result. Changes may have prevented the current disaster but instead “Reforms” have ensured its occurence and severity.
What is this “Sydney Institute” anyway, I do not think that you should grace it with your presence.
October 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
[...] Henderson attacked Keen in the SMH this morning and Keen has promptly responded on his blog this [...]
October 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Arrggghhhhhhh (bangs head on table repeatedly). I have just been reminded as to why i am never more frustrated in life then when i read the newspaper. The guy’s got no idea. Case in point – he mentions how a reporter said we are in the worst ever financial crisis and then disagrees with his reasoning being that the 1930’s saw 30% unemployment. Unemployment is NOT direct evidence of a greater FINANCIAL crisis!
I’m at the point that i cant even be bothered getting worked up by the media anymore (well this was the last time anyway)Thanks goodness for blogs hey
October 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Steve:
Would you mind explaining how the US can experience deflation when the Fed’s balance sheet has grown from US$800 billion to $US1.3 trillion in a few months and expected to go to US$2.5 trillion by the middle of next year.
You may also wan to explain how we could possibly experience deflation while the world’s major central banks are embarking on a huge monetary expansion.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Steve – Mikchael West of the Sydney Morning Herald echo’s a lot of your views. He’s one of the very few journalist in main stream media worth listening to; the rest as you rightly point out are cheer leaders.
Mr_Clean – you’re spot IMO regarding the dumbing down of Australian and the westerm world in general – particularly in basic mathematics; the Bubble Media has played a significant role towards that affect.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I agree with Mr_Cleans comments above. We’re turning into a country that just has Pavlovian responses to slogans.
I’ve really noticed over the last 2-3 years people can’t put together an argument to back up their views. They think if they rattle off enough slogans at you that somehow justifies their world view.
There is a big different between putting forward a self consistent argument and just arguing.
Simply asking people, “Why do you think that?” seems to bring them unstuck.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Wow, how’s the photoshop to make the Prof look like Mr EEEEvil himself?
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/10/21/keen300.jpg
That’s playing the man alright! Chuckle. Smells like somebody is wearing brown pants today, and I don’t think it’s Steve!
October 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
[...] job only and not subjecting my views to scrutiny. In fact, as many in the media know, I hav Source Blogs about [...]
October 21st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Steve,
As an practicing micro-economist with several years experience, I happened across your work about three months ago. Upon reading your research, I concluded that you had some very important points. While hoping that you over-stated your case slightly, I could not point to the fundamental flaw in your argument and subsequently withdrew my investments in the stock exchange. I’m very glad you did, and I thank you for your advice.
Henderson is simply playing the politics of your economics. It’s not new, nor valid, and your rigorous analytical work is of more value than Henderson’s bizarre claims of ABC bias.
Thanks again, and keep up the good work.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I have read many if not most of Mr Hendersons columns for a number of year’s and had up until now found his style of writing, which usually played the ball far more then the man to be fair and more often then not in my opinion to be balanced. Henderson nearly always backs up his arguement with relative quotes, facts and well sourced details that give his point of view nine times out of ten substance and clarity.
In his diffence I would have to say he must have had a very bad day when he wrote this rubbish, this personal attack on you would be something that Alan Jones and his ilk could only be proud of.
I take my hat of to you on your reply, it is everything that Hendersons poorly written article is not.
Mr Keen you have reacted as a scholar and a gentleman would in this situation and have made Henderson look like a hysterical dill, which I never thought I’d see the day that would happen.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
[...] Read more here: Play the ball and not the man [...]
October 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Steve, I wouldn’t worry too much about your detractors at this point in time. Nobody likes a Cassandra, especially when they’re correct. The major difference between you and many other commentators is the strength of your data. I had the sheer luck to come across one of your articles exactly one year ago, and while it was written objectively without all the dire predictions and impassioned rhetoric one hears so much these days, it prompted me to do some more research and then scaed the bejeesus out of me. I immediately withdrew my familys savings out of the sharemarket and have never regreeted that decision. So, matter what your detractors say next, it may be comforting to know that you may have saved at least one Australian familys future (or at least Christmas).
October 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I am not an economist, nor do I profess to be one, but where I am looking from Mr Keen seems to be on the ball. I am seeing job lay off everywhere and this is just the start. 30/40 percent drop in house prices – easy.
October 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Steve,
Great reply.
As a former student of yours in your Ecomonic Thought & Methodology classes at UWS I want to congratulate you for sticking to your guns.
Just know your work is appreciated by a lot of people out there who are well aware of the ‘dumbing down’ approach that fish & chips rags try too stuff down our faces.
Keep it up & good luck with your message!
October 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Amusing to see the hindsight brigade out in full force, with their post-hoc rationalisations of what went wrong. Where were they a year ago? Fraternising with executives of now defunct financial institutions and endorsing the benefits of globalisation, deregulation and “financial innovation”. They were wrong – Steve was right. A middle age, slightly dorky (sorry Steve) academic from the burbs. I bet that stings…
Of course Steve was not alone in his call. Steven Roach produced an excellent weekly commentary until he was ringing the alarm bell so loudly that Morgan Stanley had to ship him out to China to shut him up. Nouriel Roubini is another unglamorous academic who got it absolutely right. I can list another dozen people who not only forecasted a crisis, but laid out the unfolding sequence of events in some detail and supported by solid data. There is a huge difference between the two that clearly escapes Henderson and his “stopped clock” argument.
The future is a blank slate and it is entirely possible that Steve is wrong. But if track record counts for anything then he deserves to be heard out. Better late than never.
October 21st, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I think it is important when analysing what is going on to attempt to understand the vested interests at play at the political, business and media levels.
The heterogeneity of reporting of the current crisis by the media has picked up over the last week. News Ltd was very helpful to the Government soon after the stimulus package was announced – attempting to create fear in FHBs with front page headlines of predictions of house price and rental increases (the stick to the FHOG carrot).
Then on the weekend two very frank articles that house prices are falling and critical of the FHOG increases.
Then the 60 minutes story by another media company.
But over at yet another media company, Kochie was chatting with his mate Kev (though I have to admit they were surprisingly frank the previous week – well, at least they allowed Louis Christopher’s frank assessment to come through.)
I suspect that media players are struggling to come to terms with the new environment they confront as the financial world is restructured. And all would like to be cosy with the PM – though some are not as cosy as others.
I like Gerard Henderson’s comment “Not unexpectedly, the Prime Minister made it known that he was not in the business of providing predictions “about where house prices are going”.”
Gerard neglected to add that Mr Rudd’s reluctance to comment on the likely movement in house prices DID NOT STOP HIM FROM RECOMMENDING TO A YOUNG COUPLE THAT THEY SHOULD BUY A HOUSE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!
Henderson has actually paid Steve the highest of compliments. Clearly he hasn’t bothered himself with conducting any research to make substantive arguments – he’s just attacked his character. (It’s akin to a bigger but less intelligent child getting physical when his intellectual shortcomings have been “shown up”.)
Obviously Steve is having a significant impact which some elites find threatening. And worse still – he’s the most difficult threat to combat – he has no vested interest that they can attack. He’s simply warning people because his robust academic research has led him to these conclusions, and because he cares about the wellbeing of his countrymen (unlike others who are concerned about power and wealth!)
Next week Gerard might like to personally attack Paul Barry for having the audacity to inform Australians about the American housing crisis, and suggest parallels to Australia. There’s even a Yale Professor – Robert Shiller – to “have a go at”. The ABC even showed an updated version recently!
October 21st, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Bravo Steve Keen. Keep reporting as you see it. Your views are not to the liking of the vested interests who want to keep ordinary folk dumbed down so that they can keep ripping them off.
An example of the media’s misreporting was last Sunday’s (19/10/08) Channel 7 News @ 6.00pm where Jennifer Keyte’s first item was that Mr Rudd’s recent policy announcements were having a positive impact on Saturday’s auction results. What a joke!
October 21st, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Well done! Since all publicity is good publicity, this nasty piece by an ex-teacher, journo and political hack is an acknowledgment that you and your views are ready for prime time.
Make the most of it! Nouriel Roubini has built a global reputation on just two things: predicting the worst, and being right!
We can really use someone in that role here and I think you’re nominated. Keep up the writing, comment on everything, be seen everywhere and we’ll keep cheering.
The Keen Monitor has a ring to it!
October 21st, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Think of the positives Steve -Gerard’s done you a big favour by bringing you to the attention of a whole lot more people-like me-who have been searching for some sanity from an economist. Whenever I see Gerard on the attack about someone, I know it’s bound to be someone I should know about..and so it comes to pass. Great to find your site and will be making it required reading over the dark times to come.
October 21st, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Attack by the right-wing commentariat is the sincerest form of flattery.
October 21st, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Shorter Henderson: I’m jealous this man gets more media coverage and has a nicer t-shirt than I do.
October 21st, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Oh yes, good point James..
Steve, are these T-Shirts available for purchase somewhere? Sounds awesome. Nerdy, but awesome!
When will you begin offering DebtDeflation T-Shirts and other paraphernalia? I want one with a Keynes quote on the front and a picture of Henderson surrounded by fluffy bunnies and rainbows on the back…
Can do?
October 21st, 2008 at 4:59 pm
@brett of homesforaussies;
From the previous thread;
“Which leads to GSM’s comment. I don’t believe it’s all about unemployment. The US market peaked over two years ago, and has experienced significant falls as we all know – but unemployment has really only begun to increase signficantly there over the last 6 months.”
I think I was misunderstood. I did clearly say – from THIS point home prices in Australia will be governed by the employment situation.
My premise being that as the economic and consumer spending slowdown so clearly underway bites in further, unemployment will continue to rise. This will effect many mortgage holders hard – job loss translating into forced sales or foreclosure. Further, banks will tighten lending as their bad debt provisions rise, it’s happening now. Consumer sentiment has already turned regarding taking on more/new risk of an expensive fixed asset/debt.
As IR’s do fall though, more and more potential sellers will be encouraged to sell into an “active/reguvinated” housing market, further adding downward weight on prices. Volumes may improve – Perhaps. But I’m betting the transaction prices will disappoint.
The present overriding factor (not the only factor to be sure) for the near time direction of Aussie home prices will be the employment situation- of this I am sure.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:02 pm
reply to c said: most of the expansion in the balance sheet of the federal reserve is not from the printing of money, its borrowed from the treasury. Thus its not as inflationary as it first appears. In fact the federal reserve will make money on the spread, as the cost of treasuries is less than the income on some of the securities its taking on its balance sheet (just like a hedge fund). Of course its not as good a carry trade as printing money, where no interest has to be paid, but the upside is less inflation. The downside is a larger government debt. However, 4 or 5 years down the track when the economy is running more normally (hopefully) the federal reserve can then sell down the securities into the private market, reduce its balance sheet and repay the government debt. Thats the Feds thinking, hopefully it will work.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:27 pm
A blatant case of shoot the messenger.
I suspect Gerard may have significant personal adverse exposure to the current crisis that he does not wish to face up to. If so, denial is an immature response in the case of such a dilemma.
While I might not necessarily accept Steve’s forecasts in their entirety I regard his general thrust to be very much on the ball. Who knows, he may even be underestimating the seriousness of the consequences of our current predicament.
Did Gerard Henderson foresee any of this two years ago? I suspect not. At least Steve did and therefore has established a more credible track record. The journalists are therefore justified in according him the air time that he deserves.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Steve, I would not worry to much about Mr Hendersons opinion. A far as I know, he has yet to classify you as one of the inteligencia – a term I have heard him use more than once as a way of winning arguments. I wonder what he thinks of Marc Faber’s opinions, or the others who for years have shown concern about the rising debt level.
With regards to economists and mathematics, I do not know how capable they are, but I am sure that banks employ well skilled mathematicians and statisticians. However, how their statistical analysis of data (and conclusions draw from it) is put the public can easily be misleading. I once read a bank piece comparing means (of incomes) to medians (of houses) as a way of talking up housing affordability.
October 21st, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Yes, just read the SMH article.
Emotionally critical, but not a single word about the empirical evidence you have used to base your projection.
To be expected though, it is almost a science now – public deception by commercial media with little recourse to any relevant facts. Vested interests, what can you do with or for them I wonder?
Keep up the good work, the reward is the effort.
October 21st, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Steve,
When you publish week after week of real analysis, and all he does is attack you personally, is I think, the one time you can attack him personally.
Just dismiss him as the right wing nut job he is, and if not worry unless he actually wants to mention some of your analysis.
Keep up the great work- I’ve been a fan of your analysis, even when I disagree with the conclusions for a long time. Certainly long before your new found celebrity as the Australian Roubini!
–Q
October 21st, 2008 at 6:20 pm
More from Monty Python’s “abuse, not argument” room!
Pity the right-wing commentariat can’t do any better than this.
Maybe Gerard and his friends could offer a think piece or two on what they think now about the merits of deregulation and globalisation?
October 21st, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Henderson again reveals himself as the pathetic loser that he is.
A slight touch of the green-eyed dragon in there if I’m not mistaken.
One of yesterday’s men.
Can’t argue the issue.
Forget him.
October 21st, 2008 at 7:24 pm
A quote from Glenn Stevens’ speech given today and released on the RBA website -
“In countries like Australia, perhaps the long period of household debt build-up is now
giving way to a period in which balance sheets will see some consolidation. If so,
household credit growth will not be as fast as it was for the past decade and a half.
Perhaps we will need also to get better at turning borrowing for housing into more
dwellings rather than just higher house prices.”
October 21st, 2008 at 7:30 pm
GSM, apologies for any misunderstanding. I agree with much that you said except that I am not entirely sure unemployment is the greatest factor. I think the bubble was popping anyhow. Still, we both agree that unemployment will rise, so we will never know what was the greatest factor. That will be debated in depth in history books! Regards
October 21st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Great work Steve.. keep up the good work!
Takes a lot of fortitude to put yourself on the line like you have done recently!
Australian’s love to shoot down anybody with a different opinion to the masses. It is sad that such alternative views cannot be put forward anymore without being accepted with welcoming arms as finally, a differing opinion that should be embraced and at least considered.
Maybe this is why we have embraced debt so much? it has been ingrained into us in the last 25 years to follow everybody else down the same path to chase ever increasing mortgages, and other household items to keep up with the Jones. We keep hearing it in the media, on the TV, and from our friends and associates – consume, consume, consume!
Again, even if you’ve just made one person out there think a little more about the way we have been going, and where we may be heading, you are doing a good thing.
October 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pm
I favour Warren Buffets “Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked.” for the t-shirts.
The thing that Gerald Henderson etc don’t seem to understand is how much this economy depends on the creation of money through excessive debt. Stop the debt and the money flow stops. Anyone along that pathway will lose their job. Not pleasant.
His lack of understanding is shown by his statement “Put simply, Keen does not approve of debt.” Steve’s writings make it clear that he is against the unconstrained increase in debt not against debt itself.
October 21st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Henderson piles all his ‘analysis’ into his last paragraph and humiliates himself… I have never read a more pointless opinion piece. Why the Fairfax axe never fell on him, I’ll never know.
October 21st, 2008 at 8:57 pm
RIVERS of GOLD—–newspaper real estate ads, home renovation industry, project home industry, life style shows, cars and accessories all supported by pro-realestate “investment advisors” “independent economists” “politicians of all persuasions”
Don’t you realise that a severe down turn in real estate will cause the state government revenue from real estate taxes to plummet andd bankrupt the treasuries, cause Fairfax to the wall, cause mass unemployment in the building industry, hotels and coffee shops, and deprieve the middle class their reason for living?? In short, its the end of civilisation as we know it. I’m surprised that they only sent a down market Henderson attack dog – you should be denounced in parliament or sentenced to eternal intervues with Koshie.
If we have another GD mate you’ll have caused it!
Cheers,
October 21st, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Steve, I always thought that you would draw the ire of people who had expectations to get rich from an overinflated bubble financied by absurd levels of debt. (property)
They want to shush you… their wealth is fading away. It’s not their fault… its yours for not keeping up the public illusion. They think you’re being destructive simply because you’re not wanting to fool people.
There are many commentators and ‘economists’ out there who never say what someone else hasn’t already said, because it’s safe for them and it would save them from the embarassment of ever being wrong.
You’ve been both brave and correct.
Hendersons probably just p*ssed because he’s one of the people who think it’s fun to collect houses like stamps.
October 21st, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Steve
Great reply to Gerard. We’ll see if he has the stomach to invite you to the Sydney Institute. I think he will.
I hope you prepare properly, looking for the holes in your argument rather than believing the case to be self-evident by analogy.
c & Tony, Tony is mostly right, except it is even more monetarily neutral at present. US Fed Res is selling T-Bills and taking money out of the system. US Fed Res is also buying private assets and putting money into the system. Currently, these sales and purchases are roughly even.
You may not like the ‘capitalise gains / socialise losses’ aspect of the policy, but inflationary, the policy is not – in of itself…
Now, it remains true, in my mind, that the reason Bernanke is openly not worried about deflation is because, as he says, they have the policy tools to deal with deflation. In particular, the Fed could **at any time** alter the policy to become **highly** inflationary, to any degree required.
So, I would alter the position, and say the deflation / inflation aspect is a matter of policy choice for the US Fed Res.
It is not to be derived from a model, looking at feedback loops and letting a complex (and possibly beautiful) pattern emerge but is a matter which intervention may profoundly alter.
If anyone knows of a constraint that would prevent the US Fed Res from acting in this way, pls advise about it.
Now, where c may be right, is that the USA may choose to inflate.
Inflation:
* decreases the real value of non-inflation adjusted debts (benefiting public & private debt in the USA)
* may (probably does) have some behaviour influence via wealth effect as homeowners with marginally negative equity may not break from their contracts
* would substantially increase the value of the US dollar, protecting its role as the reserve currency, something that has been estimated as valuable to US GDP in the range of 7%-15% (through increased purchasing power).
So, inflation we may have, and it may be a matter of policy for the US government, but it is not a matter of course, just as Debt Deflation is not a matter of course.
It depends on the policy initiatives. Even Nouriel Roubini, over at rgemonitor.com, who wrote the 12 steps to systemic crisis back in February !! has been talking about what happens in the absence of policy intervention.
Roubini currently says “long recession” but maybe not L shaped 10 yr recession like Japan *if* policy intervention fixes it.
These are not natural systems on a global scale – so the challenge for Steve is to show **when** the dynamic feedback loops are so strong as to preclude “salvation” by policy initiative.
Furball
October 21st, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Steve it makes me quite mad to listen to idiots like him, journos that is that cant be bothered to do their research or are too quick to judge to get the next story out
one dumb media story after another. all they do is report on reporting. They react to the anything in their sphere and believe anything maintream people tell them
Very frustrating……
Keep up the great work… dont hold back…. let them know you did make accurate predictions and most other economists had absolutely no idea this was coming…..so why do they believe them?
October 21st, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Furball and c, I had a similar thought. Rather than deflation, policy makers might go for inflation route. The bailouts around the globe so far fit with that direction. Keeping the dream bubble alive.
October 22nd, 2008 at 9:12 am
The following article (ignore the cheesy title) is most interesting in that it addresses the question of US GDP growth over the past few years both with and without the contribution of mortgage equity withdrawals.
It essentially models/roughly quantifies what Steve Keen and others have said will happen to aggregate demand once debt through household equity withdrawals.
Perhaps Gerard Henderson should look at this as well.
http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/why-this-recession-will-be-a-doozy
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:36 am
Unsurprising that this should appear a day after Stevens declares that ‘a catastrophe had been averted’… And now that we’re in a week of relative calm it’s time seek out the ‘alarmists’ and give them good dressing down – it’s all their fault of course… if only they hadn’t mentioned the ‘r’ or ‘d’ words and things like ‘historical trends’ (because ‘things are different now’) in the first place , none of this would have happened!
It all seems vaguely familiar doesn’t it?
October 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
Furball: I agree with your point about the fed actions being money neutral. Its what I was implying but should have explained myself better. The fed sells treasuries into the market, gets cash then buys riskier paper from the financial institutions in a money neutral transaction, a simple carry trade.
With regard to deflation, I think the issue of inflation/deflation is currently a secondary issue for the fed. Their immediate concern is financial system resuscitation.
As the crisis moves forward I agree with Steve Keen that deflation is a serious concern and the possibility of zero interest rates both here and in the US is real. If you look at the Fed flow of funds data, total US debt is over 50 trillion. To prevent a deflationary situation you have to keep this number increasing. There are large efforts taking place now to do this, such as guaranteeing agency debt, injecting capital into banks, buying distressed debt instruments etc etc. Now George Soros says in a recent article says that Paulson was right to change the TARP policy from being a fund that simply buys distressed RMB to one where it puts more emphasis on injecting capital into banks, saying the original policy was ill-conceived. His reasoning is that capital injected directly into equity is high powered money, so that for each dollar injected, you get about 10 to 12 dollars in loans. But I think he misses a key point, and here I think Steve Keen is right, and that is who are the banks going to lend to? Who is left after sub-prime. So I don’t think the multiplier effect will be there, certainly not to the same degree.
And its for the same reason that I think Bernanke’s stated policy idea of using a helicopter money drop to prevent deflation will not work because the deflationary effects of debt contraction will overwhelm any printing of money, unless of course they are willing to completely debase the currency.
I think the only possibility of continuing to expand the 50 trillion in debt will be in the public sector, which now carries around 10 trillion in debt. Certainly Australia is in a better position to fund government expansion than the USA. My preference is that they expand government activity with steep progressive taxes, rather than more debt from Asia.
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:19 am
Tony
I think you will find that the debt from Asia is incurred to purchase cargo (imports) from Asia not to finance local transactions. Having borrowed for this purpose the banks need to find local reliable borrowers to help pay the interrest bills. The only way to stop borrowing from Asia is to balance the current account and we have not been able to do this for 33 years.
You need to get the cart in front of the horse. We need borrowers not sources of credit. If we can’t balance the CAD in this way how do we pay for the cargo? We need to earn sufficient foreign currency and if we can’t we are in systemic failure.
October 22nd, 2008 at 11:22 am
Steve, go you good thing!
Nothing worse than dull and boring people following the mainstream mantra taught in academia. As a student I have also been shot down for having original opinions and not following the standard factory order. It sounds as though your peers are becoming envious of your superior intellect. History dictates any person with original thought has been persecuted, even the big man himself, Jesus Christ
Hang in there Steve, you will be proven correct.
October 22nd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Well the Sydney Moonbat Herald (Fairfax) is kinda tottering in the print media area so it makes sense to them at the moment to play down any economic decline. The same newspaper will uncritical publish any amount of wild Anthropogenic Global Warming claims without question.
Here is my favourite newspaper stock graph – http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NYT#symbol=NYT;range=5y havin a good chuckle as this rag declines by the day.