I’m happy to admit that I underestimated how strongly governments would respond to this financial crisis. Dramatic reductions in interest rates, huge fiscal stimuli and—in the USA and UK—expansion of government-created money, have all had a positive impact on the economy and asset markets (both shares and houses).
In his recent essay, Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd estimated that the rescues were the equivalent of roughly 18 percent of global GDP over a 3 year period, which is an unprecedented level of expenditure by governments.
Eichengreen and O’Rourke’s comparison of today to the Great Depression gives the most balanced assessment of how effective these policies have been at the global level.
They have clearly turned around stock markets. Six months ago, world stock markets were 50% below their peak, a far worse performance than during the Great Depression when, at the same time after the peak, they had only fallen 10%. By the beginning of September, markets had recovered to be only a couple of percent below the comparable 1930 position of a 30% fall.
Industrial output has also turned around. Six months ago this was 13% below the peak level, worse than the 1930s position of an 11% decline. Since then it has risen to be only 10% below, while at the equivalent time in the 1930s, industrial output had fallen 20% from its 1929 high.
So has the government cavalry ridden to the rescue? If the crisis were one simply of liquidity, the answer would be yes. A government stimulus can overwhelm the impact of a credit crunch, and the innate dynamic of a productive economy can re-assert itself after such a crisis, leading to renewed growth.
But this not merely a crisis of liquidity. It is one of excessive private debt, on a scale that is also unprecedented: the USA is carrying US$41.5 trillion in debt on the back of a US$14 trillion economy, proportionately 70 percent more debt than it had at the start of the Great Depression. In December 2007, the private sector swung from ramping up debt levels as it chased speculative gains on asset markets, to retreating from debt as the asset bubbles burst.
In the space of a year, private debt went from adding US$4 trillion to aggregate demand, to subtracting US$165 billion from it. Private debt had ceased being the economy’s turbocharger and had instead become its flooded engine.

While economic outsiders like myself, Michael Hudson, Niall Ferguson and Nassim Taleb argue that the only way to restart the economic engine is to clear it of debt, the government response, has been to attempt to replace the now defunct private debt economic turbocharger with a public one.
In the immediate term, the stupendous size of the stimulus has worked, so that debt in total is still boosting aggregate demand. But what will happen when the government stops turbocharging the economy, and waits anxiously for the private system to once again splutter into life?

I am afraid that all it will do is splutter.
This is especially so since, following the advice of neoclassical economists, Obama has got not a bang but a whimper out of the many bucks he has thrown at the financial system.
In explaining his recovery program in April, President Obama noted that:
“there are a lot of Americans who understandably think that government money would be better spent going directly to families and businesses instead of banks – ‘where’s our bailout?,’ they ask”.
He justified giving the money to the lenders, rather than to the debtors, on the basis of “the multiplier effect” from bank lending:
the truth is that a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or ten dollars of loans to families and businesses, a multiplier effect that can ultimately lead to a faster pace of economic growth. (page 3 of the speech)
This argument comes straight out of the neoclassical economics textbook. Fortunately, due to the clear manner in which Obama enunciates it, the flaw in this textbook argument is vividly apparent in his speech.
This “multiplier effect” will only work if American families and businesses are willing to take on yet more debt: “a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or ten dollars of loans”.
So the only way the roughly US$1 trillion of money that the Federal Reserve has injected into the banks will result in additional spending is if American families and businesses take out another US$8-10 trillion in loans.
What are the odds that this will happen, when they already owe more than they have ever owed in the history of America? The next chart inverts the usual portrayal of America’s debt to GDP ratio by inverting it: the top of the graph represents zero debt, the bottom, a debt to GDP ratio of 300 percent—which is just shy of the current ratio of 292 percent.
If the money multiplier was going to “ride to the rescue”, private debt would need to rise from its current level of US$41.5 trillion to about US$50 trillion, and this ratio would rise to about 375%—more than twice the level that ushered in the Great Depression.
This is a rescue? It’s a “hair of the dog” cure: having booze for breakfast to overcome the feelings of a hangover from last night’s binge. It is the road to debt alcoholism, not the road to teetotalism and recovery.

Fortunately, it’s a “cure” that is also highly unlikely to work, because the model of money creation that Obama’s economic advisers have sold him was shown to be empirically false over three decades ago.
The first economist to establish this was the American Post Keynesian economist Basil Moore, but similar results were found by two of the staunchest neoclassical economists, Nobel Prize winners Kydland and Prescott in a 1990 paper Real Facts and a Monetary Myth.
Looking at the timing of economic variables, they found that credit money was created about 4 periods before government money. However, the “money multiplier” model argues that government money is created first to bolster bank reserves, and then credit money is created afterwards by the process of banks lending out their increased reserves.
Kydland and Prescott observed at the end of their paper that:
Introducing money and credit into growth theory in a way that accounts for the cyclical behavior of monetary as well as real aggregates is an important open problem in economics.
I couldn’t agree more, but unfortunately they—and neoclassical economists in general—did bugger all about it. On the other hand, the Post Keynesian group, of whom I am one, have continued to try to construct models of the economy in which credit plays an essential role.
I’ve recently developed a genuinely monetary, credit-driven model of the economy, and one of its first insights is that Obama has been sold a pup on the right way to stimulate the economy: he would have got far more bang for his buck by giving the stimulus to the debtors rather than the creditors.
The following figure shows three simulations of this model in which a change in the willingness of lenders to lend and borrowers to borrow causes a “credit crunch” in year 25. In year 26, the government injects $100 billion into the economy—which at that stage has output of about $1,000 billion, so it’s a pretty huge injection, in two different ways: it injects $100 billion into bank reserves, or it puts $100 billion into the bank accounts of firms, who are the debtors in this model.

The model shows that you get far more “bang for your buck” by giving the money to firms, rather than banks. Unemployment falls in both case below the level that would have applied in the absence of the stimulus, but the reduction in unemployment is far greater when the firms get the stimulus, not the banks: unemployment peaks at over 18 percent without the stimulus, just over 13 percent with the stimulus going to the banks, but under 11 percent with the stimulus being given to the firms.
The time path of the recession is also greatly altered. The recession is shorter with the stimulus, but there’s actually a mini-boom in the middle of it with the firm-directed stimulus, versus a simply lower peak to unemployment with the bank-directed stimulus.
Why does this model show that it’s better to give the money to the debtors than the lenders, in contrast to the case that Obama was sold, that it’s better to give it to the bankers?
Because the “money multiplier” model is effectively a mechanical, static, equilibrium model of the economy. Give the banks excess reserves, and they will lend them to the public, which will happily take on the debt. Once the reserves are fully lent out, the economy is back to equilibrium again.
In contrast, my model is a dynamic, non-equilibrium one, where the “circular flow” of money and goods is properly accounted for. In this system, you can think of the different bank accounts in the system as like dams with pipes connecting them of vastly different diameters.
When a credit crunch strikes, the pipes pumping the bank reserves to the firms shrink dramatically, while the pipe going in the opposite direction expands, and all other pipes remain the same size.
If you then fill up the bank reserves reservoir—by the government pumping the extra $100 billion into it—that money will only trickle into the economy slowly. If however you put that money into the firms’ bank accounts, it would flow at an unchanged rate to the rest of the economy—the workers—while flowing more quickly to the banks as well, reducing debt levels.
So giving the stimulus to the debtors is a more potent way of reducing the impact of a credit crunch—the opposite of the advice given to Obama by his neoclassical advisers.
This could also be one reason that the Australian experience has been better than the USA’s: the stimulus in Australia has emphasized funding the public rather than the banks (and the model shows the same impact from giving money to the workers as from giving it to the firms—and for the same reason, that workers have to spend, so that the money injected into the economy circulates more rapidly.
This model can explain some aspects of the current US data that are inexplicable from the conventional, neoclassical point of view—the key paradox being that while base money (“M0”) has been increased dramatically, there has been almost no movement in broader measures of money (“M1” and “M2”). If the money multiplier argument were correct, the increases in M1 and M2 would have been multiples of the increase in M0, as Obama was led to expect.

In fact, the expansion in M0 has been met by a fall in the credit-generated component of the money supply: since M2 includes all of M1 and M1 includes all of M0, this is clearer when we substract the double-counting out. M1 has actually contracted almost as much as M0 has expanded, while the expansion in M2 has been less than a third the size of the growth in M0.

The “money multiplier” has also collapsed—a mystery from a neoclassical point of view, but entirely predictable from the “endogenous money” perspective.

Obama has been sold a pup by neoclassical economics: not only did neoclassical theory help cause the crisis, by championing the growth of private debt and the asset bubbles it financed; it also is undermining efforts to reduce the severity of the crisis.
This is unfortunately the good news: the bad news is that this model only considers an economy undergoing a “credit crunch”, and not also one suffering from a serious debt overhang that only a direct reduction in debt can tackle. That is our actual problem, and while a stimulus will work for a while, the drag from debt-deleveraging is still present. The economy will therefore lapse back into recession soon after the stimulus is removed.






September 19th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Tim Backshall, Grey Champion and Aud Usd. Aud Usd said: RT @fxretracer It's Hard Being a Bear (Part Five): Rescued? | Steve Keen's Debtwatch: In fact, the expan.. http://bit.ly/Xlcao $$ [...]
September 19th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Thanks Steve for this clear explanation. So I’ll keep my hard-earned $$s in the Fixed Deposit account for a while longer. And maybe I’ll keep rolling it over in Fixed Deposits until it’s all gone! Not earning much, but NOT in ‘free-fall’ as it was in Super.
It’s mystery to me that these so-called financial advisers haven’t been held to account. Maybe because my generation are too polite to jump up + down, and drag dishonest people to Court. I’m not that polite. If there was a class action I’d be there supporting it, but couldn’t take it on by myself.
Any comments from people in the same boat as me?
September 19th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Steve and BullturnedBear and other deflationists,
Your moronic buddy Mish Shedlock has just got his butt kicked in a debate over inflation and deflation.The idiot made a complete fool of himself, i thought that he was slow but listening to the debate it made me think that i was giving that moron to much credit, he actually is a cretin and now the whole world can see the deflationists as being as stupid as him.
The real embarrassing thing about this situation is that he mentioned your name and work Steve Keen, and now the world will think that you are lumped with that fool, making you look like a fool.
Go to http://www.financialsense.com and listen to the third hour debate for todays show.
Deflationists got their but kicked and i hope will now go back into their holes never to be seen again.
BTB are you still shorting gold?
Shame if you had of listened to me in July calling the bottom you would have made a chit load of money.
Has any body else on this blog made a call like i did that was proven to be correct and actually made some money?
No theories or bullchit just actual correct calls that were proven correct.
BUY GOLD BEFORE IT IS TO LATE.
September 19th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Turn your testosterone dial down before you make your next post, Elliottwave. I’m happy to have your opinions on this site, but if they amount to more abuse of others than opinion, I’ll remove you from the site.
I want this blog to be a record of opinions and sensible argument, not flaming.
September 19th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Answer me this question please Steve.
If the $10 trillion dollars that the FED printed and gave to the banks, was not hoarded but instead paid out to the winners of the OTC derivatives and that money is out in the economy not sitting dormant in a bank reserve, is that not inflationary?
It does not matter if it happened or not i am asking if in theory that did happen what would you call that?
September 19th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Steve,
I believe that you will ignore my post because you believe that i am a simple pleb and irrelevant.
But please understand that i am right i know that you cannot see this at this time but you will in time, i honestly believe that you will change your mind.
What upsets me is that i was mocked by BTB when in actual fact i was correct and he was so wrong and yet i was not treated with respect by him.If i was incorrect and made a fool of myself by making a bad call then i fully understand him being rude, but it was the exact opposite i was 100% correct and he was 100% wrong and yet he had the nerve to mock me.
I do not believe that you cautioned him in any way?
September 19th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
An interesting example of the effect of giving money to private firms would be the Great Depression. After 10 years of stimulus packages, massive public works programs etc the American economy wasn’t really going anywhere. Six years later they had massive government debt but they also had huge manufacturing capability just needing conversion to produce consumer goods. All it took was a world war. There were probably some other reasons but their problems mainly seem to have been fixed by necessity of increasing industrial output rather than public spending.
September 19th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Steve,
Where does the Australian economy stand in relation to your new credit money model?
And in particular, how long before we see the full effects of the GFC here in Australia?
September 19th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Steve, loved these two posts. I did like the renderings, which I shall put on mish to stir some thoughts about whether a liquidationist approach would in fact bottom and and find equilibrium!
So before too long, the neo-classical establishment is going to have to abandon the money multipler. The critical point will be at the beginning of the next collapse whenever that may be. So, what will they try next:
1. bernanke’s preference is for a seigniorage funded tax cut.
2. the chartalists (maybe the new japan finance guy leans this way?) and keynsians (like krugman) want fiscal spending, marshall plans etc.
3. ‘veolocity targetting’ as a replacement for ‘inflation targetting’. Ie. target excess reserves like the riksbank rather than targetting the taylor rule.
What else is there?
September 19th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Steve,
You’ve probably been through this before, but I’m interested in how you calculate your total US debt number of $ 41.5 trillion.
E.G. the Fed flow of funds report that came out yesterday shows the following debt for Q2 2009:
page 9; table D3:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1.pdf
Households 13.7
Business 11.2
State and local government 2.3
Federal government 7.2
Financial 16.5
Foreign 2.0
Total 52.9
The non-financial (but including foreign) subtotal is $ 36.4 trillion. A guess: do you exclude financial debt but include the internally held government debt such as the social security trust fund?
More interestingly, I haven’t looked at the historic numbers in great depth, but it looks to me like financial debt is the outsized contributor to total gross debt expansion over the years. Have you done work looking more closely at the implications of this financial sector impact for historical comparison purposes? Does it make any difference to the overall interpretation?
September 19th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Steve,
A small technical point:
I watched that Obama speech, and the interesting thing is that he was very clearly referring to a “multiplier” in the sense of a capital multiplier, not a central bank reserve multiplier.
This is actually a correct use of the term, in a loose, non-prejudicial sense. A capital multiplier in such a sense is simply the inverse of a required capital ratio. This is definitely not the incorrect neo-classical use of the term in the erroneous sense of a central bank reserve multiplier dynamic.
Whether or not that type of intended capital/lending effect is appropriate in the circumstances is quite a different matter, subject to rejection/debate, as may be the case. But it is a legitimate use of the term multiplier, as opposed to the completely false use of the term in the neoclassical central bank reserve context.
Indeed, the root problem with the neoclassical interpretation is that its proponents clearly don’t understand the important and fundamental distinction between bank capital and central bank (liquidity) reserves.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:18 am
Also, the obvious, pedestrian calculations of a collapsing “money multiplier” have nothing to do directly with bank capital dynamics. One must look at bank capital ratios to assess the latter. It is clear that bank capital ratios have improved since the nadir of the crisis. This is to be expected, since the judgement was that banks were undercapitalized as a result of losses taken during the crisis. Hence, there is some RELATIVE hoarding of newly externally injected or newly internally generated capital going on. And this is even more understandable considering the regulatory push to higher capital requirements as a result of the crisis experience. Commentators regularly ask, “Where has the (TARP) money gone?” Well, it’s gone largely to improve capital ratios, and to prevent an even greater collapse in lending that would have occurred in the counterfactual. It’s all about the counterfactual in assessing these things. And the issue of capital adequacy means capital has a commingled characteristic. One doesn’t just take a billion dollars of capital and “lend” it out. One uses it as a reserve against risk across a portfolio of assets, existing and/or new, depending on the overall level of capital adequacy. All of this is very different than having a billion dollars in one’s central bank reserve account, where the effect is subject to a host of erroneous interpretations such as those that arise horribly from the neoclassical textbooks.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Steve,
“So giving the stimulus to the debtors is a more potent way of reducing the impact of a credit crunch—the opposite of the advice given to Obama by his neoclassical advisers.”
To be clear, absolutely nothing I’ve said above contradicts this. For all I know, it’s right.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:45 am
I hope this site is properly backed up and archived, because it will be fascinating in years to come as it is now.
Inflation – Steve I see you have modelled inflation. I’ve been really trying to get my head around the topic for some time. Can you elaborate on what stands behind the Inflation graph in this post’s model and any others thoughts you have the topic?
September 20th, 2009 at 1:19 am
NO RELIEF FOR HOMEBUYERS because the triple whammy taxes are not so bad! They are already borrowing a lot and can afford to borrow more. As much as 70 to 110K as hidden taxes, council fees, etc and some of here say it’s the borrowers fault and dont deserve any debt jubilee? This is on top of getting taxed a lot. Get a life mate if you think it innocent owner occupied home buyers fault. There is a difference between people speculating and shelter and people benefiting from the causing the forced imbalance.
But the Henry review has come to the conclusion that other state taxes, much complained about, aren’t actually that bad. Stamp duties on conveyancing and land transactions are charged at a time when people are already borrowing and can afford to pay them. They don’t seem to be much slowing our relentless desire to trade up and they help claw back the untaxed profits we make from the capital gains tax exemption for the family home. The review won’t recommend an end to real estate stamp duties for as long as the capital gains tax exemption remains, and even it is unlikely to have the courage to recommend an end to the exemption.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/my-tax-rules-the-ken-henry-way-20090918-fvan.html
September 20th, 2009 at 1:34 am
Perhaps give the younger gen a rope and encourage them to go for it? Maybe that will solve all the demographic problems so others can buy cheap houses? This is just to show my frustration that some people here seem to generalize and cant differentiate between speculators and desperate home buyers who are trapped by the imbalance cause by the vested interest, forced imbalance by the government, real estate agents, banks and investors.
If Steve and ever one on the Balmer list had not identified this crisis and would be like the neoclassicals and would justify the crazy house prices quoting salaries increase by 30% every 5 or so years, use the supply demand argument etc? Would you really be so judgmental? I doubt it! I reckon you would commit to buying in fear of prices rising.
Thankfully we have Steve and a few who have validated our beliefs that this is crazy but how are there fairing with the media? The MSM has deliberately attacked them so that majority of people dont take them too seriously.
September 20th, 2009 at 1:36 am
@ elliottwave.
You are seriously disingenious with your comments. In fact, they are so misleading that I question your integrity.
I am extremely interested in hearing every well put perspective on Inflation / Deflation. So, I listened to the link you mention. The debate b/w Mish & Financial Sense guy.
So, it turns out, that these two guys largely agree.
That is, the debate b/w the “Inflationist” and the “Deflationist” was largely a problem of semantics.
CRITICALLY, as far as Steve’s work is concerned, BOTH agreed that Asset Price DEFLATION was likely.
For the more informed participants of this blog, I don’t think there was much new in the ideas discussed.
–
I would agree that MISH wasn’t the most articulate of the two. But that’s a separate aspect.
Regarding the ideas, they were both Asset Price Deflationists.
–
Furball.
–
Also, Elloitwave, did you buy Gold in AUD or USD ? I don’t recall you mentioning in previous posts that you were hedging out the currency effects.
And if you’re native American, please understand that we have to worry about the currency aspects because not many of us are likely to wish to move to a Nation that has such an unbelievably poor health care policy.
–
Furball
September 20th, 2009 at 2:24 am
Hi there,
Just saw you on Max Keiser’s Press TV show. I’ve heard your name, but at this point only know a little of your background.
I lived for a while in the U.K. Then in Japan during the “Dark ’90s”. Now I’m back in the States and see the global meltdown from an expat’s eprspective.
How do most Australians see the total lack of transparency from Obaam re: this? Putting many key advisors in place who are responsible for causing this. Also, the number of economic “refugees” from the States continues to grow. Naturally the corporate MSM here will NEVER mention this. But how does Australian Immigration view people like that? My understanding is the usual conditions: have a legitimate job offer from a reputable firm, etc. And unless you have some major problem in your background, you’re at the mercy of whoever views your application.
Don’t misunderstand. I’m NOT asking you to help m land a job
. I’m just looking at the current market conditions.
Thanks and nice site/cheers!
September 20th, 2009 at 3:36 am
Steve,
I, too, have been wondering about debt figures from the Flow of Funds.
Some argue that in aggregating debt, you should ignore financial debt because this would be double counting, in that bank debt is a way to finance business or household debt. That’s led me to wonder if financial debt is what allowed for the 40-year credit bubble of the U.S. It went from 9% of GDP in 1968 to 122% in 2008.
But over the last two quarters, financial debt has fallen by $630B, while private nonfinancial debt has fallen by just $69B. So if this was debt financing other debt, why would it fall 9 times faster?
Great post.
On the deflation/inflation argument, it often seems to me that the two sides argue two different points. The inflationists start with the a priori assumption that the authorities can always create inflation in a fiat currency world, then spend their time arguing why it would be the easiest way out of a debt bubble.
While deflationists are arguing whether inflation can necessarily be created at will.
Bernanke speaks now as if the mere idea the Fed would deliberately create substantial inflation is absurd. But it’s hard to forget the helicopter comment…
To me, it comes down to how the US could afford to stoke in inflation when it would cause an immediate debt crisis. They would need to just go completely down the path of Zimbabwe. People who think a moderate ca. 4-5% inflation can be engineered are definitely wrong, because the bond market would respond so forcefully.
But if the Fed lets the helicopters fly, and just monetizes fiscal debt, what could stop it?
September 20th, 2009 at 3:47 am
Hi Steve.
This is quite unrelated to the above. I am a health professional and have no academic background in economics. I have been following your blog and the current world financial news in the past year or so… & I think things are getting more & more fascinating.
I’d like to study health economics at a postgraduate level but am unsure of where (what uni in Australia). I hope to find a ’sensible’ course which offers a balanced view , i.e. not predominantly driven by the teachings of neoclassical economics. Any ideas? Much appreciated.
September 20th, 2009 at 4:16 am
Hi Steve,
Have you ever had any dealings with Jim Rogers (currently based in Singapore)? He has his new commodities index that’s been going for a while.
He seems to agree with you regarding the key role that debt plays in the current global depression. I’ll give him credit for using the global media to get his message out. As to why he wastes his time with the business MSM in the States is a mystery to me.
One major complaint against Rogers in the U.K. is his farily recent the-U.K.-economy-is-screwed comments. Many in the business MSM there were having a go at him (he’s using fear to manipulate the market and make a quick killing like George Soros did earlier). I disagree for two reasons. One, the global markets are WAY too voliatile. And two, NOBODY has that that kind of power (not even a billionaire like Rogers).
I know that markets are a combination of data, emotion and perception. Having said that, why don’t millions of Americans march in the streets over this total lack of transparency? Tony Benn’s comment comes to mind. How do you keep a population under control? Keep them in debt and ill-informed.
Cheers
September 20th, 2009 at 4:45 am
The financial sector has issued $ 16.5 trillion in debt as liabilities, but holds $ 38.6 trillion in debt as assets.
The large funding difference is explained by such items as deposits, equity capital, central bank reserves and currency, mutual fund shares, and life insurance and pension liabilities.
Given the large mismatch between debt issued and debt held, it’s not surprising that there’s a mismatch in periodic changes of both.
September 20th, 2009 at 6:51 am
JKH, yes, good point.
Here is what I mean. Say you look at total private nonfinancial debt. In 1968 it was $873B, 91% of GDP. In 2008 it was $26,859B, 192% of GDP. The excess growth, 192-91=100% of GDP is ca $14T. The growth in financial debt over that 40 years $16T. Those two numbers are close, and I wonder if there is a relationship?
What if issuing debt by banks had been restricted? Then, to lend more they would have needed to increase deposits, and to do that would have needed to pay higher interest rates. If they had done that, savings would have risen and consumption would have fallen, and loan demand would have fallen some. Maybe the debt ratios would now be near where they were 40 years ago?
Just a theory…
September 20th, 2009 at 7:08 am
Bob_in_MA,
Yes, I think there’s a relationship, as you point out.
Interestingly, most of the financial sector debt is not issued by banks. The big categories are “Government sponsored enterprises (i.e. Fannie, Ginnie, etc.), agency and GSE backed mortgage pools, and ABS issuers”.
These categories total $ 12 trillion of the $ 16.5 trillion in financial debt outstanding.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:08 am
It quite possibly is inflationary Elliottwave,
But of asset prices rather than commodity prices. These are hardly recipients who are going to use the money to predominantly buy groceries. It’s another error in Obama’s strategy, even on conventional grounds: if you want money to circulate then give it to those with a high propensity to consume, rather than those with a high propensity to speculate.
Had it been given to the debtors, then it could have been inflationary–but even then it would have been attenuated by the $42 trillion in debt they currently are.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:18 am
Elliottwave, that is not why I would ignore you: I would ignore you because, whether you realise it or not, you are frequently personally rude initially in an exchange–and this can cause a runaway process where the person you should be intellectually challenging reacts to the emotional bait, and escalates the emotional exchange rather than addressing the issue.
I’m not speaking through my hat here: I had personal experience of such behaviour ending two rather good early internet discussion groups–one on Marx, the other on Post Keynesian economics–and on the latter, I was one of those so incensed by the personal nature of one individual’s posts that the moderator had to caution us both. Ultimately I am afraid that was to no avail, because the provocateur in that instance just continued to behave the same way.
It was impossible to remove this person from the list–because he was far too prominent in the area–so instead the ultimate outcome was that the list itself shut down–not because of that one incident but because of many of the same ilk.
Now I am not going to go back and research this in detail because I simply don’t have time, but my recollection from closely monitoring posts is that you normally provoke the reactions like those by BTB that you are raise here. If he in turn got really out of hand then I would caution him too, but normally his replies of that nature are an understandable response to a personal quip you made previously–implying he was a fool for not agreeing with you, for example, when you had frequently not even set out in any comprehensible detail what it was you thought he should agree to.
What I would suggest you do in future is, before you commit a comment to the blogsphere, invert the argument you’ve made (“gold will fall etc rather than rise”) and then think how you would react if the surrounding comments (“you’re an idiot if you don’t believe that…”) remained the same.
If your own hackles would be provoked, then modify the surrounding comments. Put some argument–and statistics if they would help–into the statement. If you don’t, then even if you prove to be right, no-one will know why.
Incidentally, on that front you made a call for gold to be (if I remember rightly) $1224 by some date in November. Was that supposed to be US or Australian dollars?
September 20th, 2009 at 7:22 am
It’s total private debt, and simply Household+Business+Financial JKH. I did toy with some more complicated calculations, but in the end decided the straightforward one was the best for my purposes. I’ll explain why I include financial debt in another reply.
Financial is the outstanding one–quite correct–but household comes second. Household are about twice as indebted now as they were at the time of the Great Depression.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:26 am
Yes, but even there it’s wrong in terms of the monetary dynamics of the actual economy. And there’s a very interesting document:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/supplement/2008/02/table1_15.htm
which points out that the US’s Reserve Requirement is in fact zero for anything other than household deposits. To me this implies the commonsense perspective that the main function of the RR in practice is that banks have enough cash on hand to handle any public run (long enough for the Fed to race extra notes there if necessary), rather than as a control mechanism as it is portrayed in the textbooks.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Yes, agreed. Complaining about the banks hoarding this money is simply silly, though that’s been the response I’ve seen even from some of the figures involved–Summer, Geithner etc. Of course they were going to do so. The mistake was to give them the reserves directly as a supposed stimulus to the economy, rather than to let them accumulate those reserves through debt repayment by debtors–had the stimulus instead gone to them.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Agreed JKH.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:35 am
It’s incredibly simple BH: this is the outcome of a dynamic model in which money wages respond to the rate of unemployment in a nonlinear way–the classic “Phillips curve”, but in my case used the way Phillips intended it to be used, as an input to a dynamic model–andin which prices adjust with a lag to the demand-supply gap.
Then, because the model is explicitly driven by financial flows–in that all demand is monetary and the level of demand reflects the rate of turnover of money–this in turn affects price setting. The rate of growth of money wages settles down when the rate of unemployment stabilises because demand and supply ultimately start to converge, but the low rate of turnover with “credit crunch” level money turnover rates mean physical supply continues to exceed the price-converted level of demand and prices keep falling.
That said, I had no idea this would be an outcome of the model–that inflation would prevail for some level or above of monetary turnover parameters, and deflation for levels below there: it was quite a surprise to me, but the behaviour appeared to mimic what happened in the real world and especially in the Depression.
The model is written up–in equation form–in my paper:
Bailing out the Titanic with a Thimble, Economic Analysis and Policy, Vol 39 Issue 1, pp. 3-24
which is freely downloadable. The outline there is very brief though, so I’ll be going into more detail in a later paper and the book.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Yes, there is so much nonsense written about reserves that I sometimes forget there is a common sense utility to the vault cash banks hold – the good old fashioned kind of reserve. As of August, vault cash totalled $ 49.5 billion, of which $ 38 billion counted toward required reserves, as calculated by the Fed. Total required reserves were $ 63 billion, the residual being (far) more than satisfied by deposits with the Fed.
September 20th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Spot on in all respects Bob_in_MA.
Firstly, I do include financial sector debt because that is a genuine additional source of debt–not double-counting. In terms of my model (and I have modelled financial sector debt as in the debt of non-banks to banks), the debt from the non-bank to the bank creates both debt and money; then the lending actions of the non-bank create debt but no money. So not only is their debt to the banks genuinely separate from their on-lending, the whole process also means that there is more debt than money in a monetary system in which non-bank lending is allowed.
This in turn adds to the financial burden on the economy, and this is a major focus of the research done by my good mate and system engineering colleague Trond Andresen.
And yes, you’re right that most of the inflationists simply start from assuming that the “money multiplier” model accurately describes the credit money creation process–thus perceiving far greater powers to create inflation than the Fed actually has.
And yes, if Bernanke really did cut loose–creating not US$1 trillion but $25 trillion in money AND giving it to the debtors, then that could well trigger widespread inflation. But I can’t see him doing it, either personally or politically.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:07 am
“I have modelled financial sector debt as in the debt of non-banks to banks”
I’m sure I don’t understand this.
Non-financial sector debt is debt issued by the non-financial sector, held as an asset by anybody.
Financial sector debt is debt issued by the financial sector, held as an asset by anybody.
Banks are a subset of the financial sector.
Non-banks is an ambiguous term, sometimes meaning financial institutions other than banks, other times meaning anything other than banks, including non bank financial institutions as well as non financial sector entities. When you say debt of non-banks to banks, I interpret that as debt issued by non-banks to banks, which could mean anything, depending on your defined domain for non-banks. Apart from that, and either way, it certainly doesn’t correspond to the above definition of financial sector debt. Sorry, I’m completely confused as to your intended meaning here.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Welcome aboard soho44.
I expected Obama to appoint the same people who helped cause the crisis, simply because he is a politician first and foremost, and the sensible thing for a politician to do is to appoint experts to advise him, since he is by definition a generalist.
That works in every field except economics, where the so-called experts are expert in a theory that is so removed from reality it might as well be its negative. But as a generalist, how is Obama to know that? So he appoints “the best in the field”, which just happens to be much the same team as Bush had.
What I am hoping is that, after 2 or so years where the economy refuses to behave as they expect it to, he starts to investigate what it means to be an “acknowledged expert” in economics right now. Then he might be amenable to more informed advice.
On immigration to Australia, I doubt that they’re judgmental over it. They’re far from perfect–especially after the damage done to our humanitarian credentials, and the credos inside the Department, by the Howard years and the demonising of refugees that went with it–but they’re likely still to assess applicants simply on those standard criteria.
September 20th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Hi msdonna,
The problem with niche disciplines like health economics, environmental economics, agricultural economics etc is that they tend to be colonised by neoclassicals–and not particularly good neoclassicals at that.
Postgraduate courses also tend to be what I term “kindergarten masters” degrees, where they re-teach undergraduate economics since they are mainly used by people from a different background to retrain as economists. Again, they are dominated by neoclassicals, and they are also treated as cash cows to some extent.
I think your best bet is to choose a reasonably OK uni and then specialise within it on health in a thesis where you can choose your supervisor carefully. My uni is OK on that front (though I don’t teach in the postgrad course), and Queensland. Also possibly UTS, Newcastle maybe, and some universities in SA and WA (Curtin, Uni of SA). Not Sydney or NSW or the ANU however!
September 20th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Steve,
I was thinking about the fact that Post-Keynesians had falsified the money-multiplier model three decades ago and neoclassicals themselves had done the same two decades ago.
When and who developed the initial money-multiplier model? Was it an honest mistake or the result of neoclassical nonsense designed to arrive at preconceived conclusions?
On the subject of equilibrium, I was reading through another of Joe McCauley’s articles from Physica A and he certainly has some interesting things to say about general equilibrium theory (GET).
He asserts that the correct definition of equilibrium is:
“An equilibrium market is defined as one where the match of supply to demand determines the price of a commodity: the excess demand, dened as demand D(p) minus supply S(p); e(p)= D(p) ? S(p), vanishes in equilibrium. This is the correct definition of equilibrium from a dynamic standpoint.” (p. 507).
Is this correct?
“Adam Smith’s main idea, the notion of a producer or trader making a profit (financial friction), is completely eliminated from the price-adjustment process of GET. In the face of this criticism economists tend to reply: `You misunderstand the idea of equilibrium due to the balance of supply and demand. We only want to prove the existence of equilibrium’, where, by `proof ‘, they mean only mathematically, not empirically.” (p. 510)
What I found fascinating was his analysis of price as determined by supply and demand:
“…can the idea of a utility function … be used to predict or even describe demand, supply, and prices in real markets, or in somewhat realistic toy models of markets
when we look at empirical data? … Osborne addressed this question directly: he asked whether there is empirical evidence that prices plotted as functions of supply – demand appear in real data. If such evidence existed Osborne was unable to find it. Neither has anyone else … Osborne’s idea is not hard to understand qualitatively: given 20 tomatoes (supply), all other things being equal, then what’s the price? Answer: anything or nothing. The price simply is not determined by demand, or supply, so that the intersecting `graphs’ of D(x) and S(x) shown in standard economics texts are merely cartoons that have no empirical basis whatsoever.” (p. 518)
“All other things being equal, consumers prefer falling prices, only at worst equilibrium, in a market whenever they have to buy items for consumption or real use. People who buy stocks or oer credit prefer rising prices of assets. No one who invests in the stock market wants equilibrium (vanishing excess demand for the asset), because in that case there are no gains due to price appreciation. A booming stock market is very far from equilibrium: the average excess demand is positive and large, otherwise prices cannot increase.” (p. 532)
“The stock market is generally not in equilibrium. Total supply does not match total demand because not all limit orders for a minute, hour, or day can be filled. There is no meaningful `clearing price’ for one day, only a range of bid/ask prices over which trades were made with nonzero total excess demand during the entire day. The notion of equilibrium is not very useful and is even misleading in modeling financial data dynamically.” (p. 532)
“There is no price stability in the unregulated free market: Adam Smith’s stabilizing hand is a myth that is not supported by either market data or by stochastic models that try realistically to describe liquid market data (stocks, bonds, and foreign exchange). There are no restoring forces in the fluctuations, only randomness of some sort or another.” (p. 533)
“According to the empirical data there are no internal `restoring forces’ that can stabilize a free market. Adam Smith’s hand simply does not exist; the balancing of total supply with total demand occurs randomly, infrequently, and only by accident, if at all.” (p. 534)
“I have shown that utility generally does not exist as a function, that utility maximization is not an equilibrium condition, and therefore that price generally cannot be expected to be defined as a function of demand variables. This means that textbook economic theory is wrong, inapplicable (no great surprise to anyone, presumably) and cannot form the basis for intelligently made socio-economic policy decisions. I pointed out further that market models are not equilibrium models and that there is no stability either in the models or in asset price data. The entropy can be defined, but it is never maximized in an unregulated free market. Equilibrium does not prevail and is not a useful idea for understanding real markets.” (p. 534)
“In qualitative agreement with Black, a former dynamical systems theorist who worked in econometrics argues that econometrics is socially constructed and notes that the notion of market equilibrium was philosophically soothing in a time when conservatives and others were afraid of revolt and revolution by the masses. General equilibrium theory is more like a mathematics-based ideology than like a science. In the age of complexity it will not likely survive whereas Newtonian mechanics not only survived but generated the field of deterministic chaos, and has been speculated to contain complexity as well. The recent deregulation of banking/insurance/brokerage, another uncontrolled experiment in finance, combined with the lack of regulation of options trading will likely lead to surprises.” (p. 535)
McCauley, Joseph. 2000. “The futility of utility: how market dynamics marginalize Adam Smith”, Physica A, Vol. 285, pp. 506-538
Not exactly what they teach in university economic departments?
September 20th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Hi Steve,
How would you compare the business MSM in Australia to the one in the States? Having lived abroad, I’m finding more accurate information overseas than here. Then, when I call one of my mutual funds, many times I feel like I know more than they do. Which leads to the next question: if that’s true, then why is this fund person making probably 5 times what I am?
September 20th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Steve,
On the inflation/deflation argument, I imagine Marc Faber, who sees hyper-inflation in U.S. as inevitable, would generally agree with your analysis of how we got to a crisis, and what has happened since.
But he would disagree that Bernanke, et al., won’t ultimately go over the edge. I favor your point of view, but I don’t see it as a slam dunk.
Your prescription includes some sort of debt jubilee. I really have a hard time see that has politically feasible here. Frankly, I’d be against it.
But what do you think of the idea of replacing debt with equity? There have been proposals to set up a system where an underwater homeowner has their mortgage reduced to 80-90% of current home value, and the balance of the current debt converted into a chit against the future sale of the house. I’m not sure I have the details correct and I can’t find an example right now.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Steve,
Gold will trade at US$1224 on or before November 5 2009.
Remember this and when it happens alot of people on this blog will be owing me and apology.
You can use this information for trading purposes i do not mind if people profit from my calls, even if they agree or dislike me.
Elliottwave.
September 20th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Elliotwave I don’t disagree with Jim Sinclairs gold price predictions but why do you pretend they are yours?. You are simply parroting him.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Hey Bob_in_MA
In the Financial Sense news hour they interview Dr. Farber on Inflation after the “The Great Deflation/Inflation Debate with Daniel R. Amerman & Michael ‘Mish’ Shedlock”
Links to the debate and Faber interview are here:
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-0919-3a.mp3
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-0919-3b.mp3
- Ernie.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:22 am
My advice to Elliottwave cuts both ways Chiswick. In this post it would help if you could have linked to Sinclair making the same price prediction. Is that the case?
September 20th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Non-banks are financial institutions that can’t accept deposits. They borrow most of the funds they lend from banks, so that when they on-lend, they reduce their account balances with the banks as much as those they lend to increase their bank balances.
Overall there is money created as well as debt in the lending by a bank to a non-bank; and further debt is created, but no money, when that non-bank financial institution on-lends to a household or business.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Steve,
I believe that if you go back and check you will see that i have already mentioned that James Sinclair is the greatest finacial mind on earth and HE is the one who is saying all these things not me.
I cannot mention him every single time i post, people here would know already why i am posting these comments, they are his.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:52 am
OK. Thanks for that.
September 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Steve, another great post. Would be interesting to model collateral values and agency costs (and other institutional variables), and try and quantify their impact on the money supply as well (m2, m3 etc). Asset values (particularly, land values, supported by overbuilding) I think lead the cycle.
Also, looking at the sort of people at the ANU economics faculty, something tells me the money multiplier is going to be around for a very long time- they (i.e neoclassicals) will blame it on the central bank or something stupid like that- thus, economics merely reasserts its old prejudices.
Elliotwave, sounds a bit like a self-fulfilling prophecy (much like house prices!)- if you tell enough people that things will go up, they will go up. Nevertheless, I wonder what private interests or agenda elliotwave is actually representing- the sad about the internet is we just do not know who is hiding behind a username -:) No offence, of course.
msdonna,
I agree with Steve- stay away from ANU (and Sydney). Most of the lecturers here, with the exception of William Coleman, are appallingly ignorant, and have little to no break ground in niche economics (or economic history, for that matter).
September 20th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
My apologies Steve and anybody else who felt I was out of line. I will give myself an uppercut or two and watch my manners in the future.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Interesting article that looks at one of the results of a very dubious government policy.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/chinese-buyers-fuel-topend-property-boom-20090918-fvga.html
We’ve just had a bottom up frenzy in the market due to the FHOB, get ready for the top down frenzy to follow.
The Government is clearly hell bent on protecting the market. This relaxation of FIRB rules could make the recently discussed property investment option through a SMSF look like chickenfeed.
Latest figures (REIV) suggest the vacancy rates throughout Melbourne have doubled in the past 12 months and this could be the initiative to retighten it. The article suggests many foreign purchasers are buying and ‘parking’ these properties. Who said people don’t buy and sit on otherwise productive assets?
There’s plenty of evidence that this is already occuring in the middle level of the markeet as well.
September 20th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I should have added that every thought that I have seen from elliotwave on gold and economics can be traced to Jim Sinclair. I don’t have a problem with that because I agree with Jim Sinclair, I would just like to see due credit given for Jim’s work because when elliotave says: ‘You can use this information for trading purposes i do not mind if people profit from my calls’ the problem is they are not his calls they are Sinclair’s.