Neoclassical Economics: mad, bad, and dangerous to know
The whole of the most recent Real World Economics Review (formerly known as the Post-Autistic Economics Review) is devoted to the question of “How should the collapse of the world financial system affect economics?”.
My paper, which led volume 49, is reproduced below. If you’d like to read the entire volume, click here for the online version and here for the PDF. You can also go here for back issues, and to subscribe for free.
The most important thing that global financial crisis has done for economic theory is to show that neoclassical economics is not merely wrong, but dangerous.
Neoclassical economics contributed directly to this crisis by promoting a faith in the innate stability of a market economy, in a manner which in fact increased the tendency to instability of the financial system. With its false belief that all instability in the system can be traced to interventions in the market, rather than the market itself, it championed the deregulation of finance and a dramatic increase in income inequality. Its equilibrium vision of the functioning of finance markets led to the development of the very financial products that are now threatening the continued existence of capitalism itself.
Simultaneously it distracted economists from the obvious signs of an impending crisis—the asset market bubbles, and above all the rising private debt that was financing them. Paradoxically, as capitalism’s “perfect storm” approached, neoclassical macroeconomists were absorbed in smug self-congratulation over their apparent success in taming inflation and the trade cycle, in what they termed “The Great Moderation”. Ben Bernanke’s contribution to this is worth quoting at length:
… the low-inflation era of the past two decades has seen not only significant improvements in economic growth and productivity but also a marked reduction in economic volatility…, a phenomenon that has been dubbed “the Great Moderation”. Recessions have become less frequent and milder, and … volatility in output and employment has declined significantly… The sources of the Great Moderation remain somewhat controversial, but … there is evidence for the view that improved control of inflation has contributed in important measure to this welcome change in the economy … (Bernanke, 2004; emphasis added)
It is all very well to have economic theory dominated by a school of thought with an innate faith in the stability of markets when those markets are forever gaining—whether by growth in the physical economy, or via rising prices in the asset markets. In those circumstances, academic economists aligned to PAECON can rail about the logical inconsistencies in mainstream economics all they want: they will be, and were, ignored by government, the business community, and most of the public, because their concerns don’t appear to matter.
They can even be put down as critics of capitalism—worse still, as proponents of socialism—because it seems to those outside academia, and to neoclassical economists as well, that what they are attacking is not economic theory, but capitalism itself: “You think markets are unstable? Shame on you!”
The story is entirely different when asset markets crash beneath a mountain of debt, and the ensuing fallout threatens to take the physical economy with it. Now it should be possible to have the critics of neoclassical economics appreciated for what we really are: critics of a fundamentally false theory of the operations of a market economy, and tentative developers of a new, realistic analysis of the nature of capitalism, warts and all.
Changing Pedagogy
Given how severe this crisis has already proven to be, the reform of economic theory and education should be an easy and urgent task. But that is not how things will pan out. Though the “irresistible force” of the Global Financial Crisis is indeed immense, so to is the inertia of the “immovable object” of economic belief.
Despite the severity of the crisis in the real world, academic neoclassical economists will continue to teach from the same textbooks in 2009 and 2010 that they used in 2008 and earlier (laziness will be as influential a factor here as ideological commitment). Rebels economists will be emboldened to proclaim “I told you so” in their non-core subjects, but in the core micro, macro and finance units, it will be business as usual virtually everywhere. Many undergraduate economics students in the coming years will sit gobsmacked. as their lecturers recite textbook theory as if there is nothing extraordinarily different taking place in the real economy.
The same will happen in the academic journals. The editors of the American Economic Review and the Economic Journal are unlikely to convert to Post Keynesian or Evolutionary Economics or Econophysics any time soon—let alone to be replaced by editors who are already practitioners of non-orthodox thought. The battle against neoclassical economic orthodoxy within universities will be long and hard, even though its failure will be apparent to those in the non-academic world.
Much of this will be because neoclassical economists are genuinely naïve about their role in causing this crisis. From their perspective, they will interpret the crisis as due to poor regulation, and to government intervention in areas that should have been left to the market. Aspects of the crisis that cannot be solely attributed to those causes will be covered by appealing to embellishments to basic neoclassical theory. Thus, for example, the Subprimes Scam will be portrayed as something easily explained by the theory of asymmetric information.
They will seriously believe that the crisis calls not for the abolition of neoclassical economics, but for its teachings to be more widely known. The very thought that this financial crisis should require any change in what they do, let alone necessitate the rejection of neoclassical theory completely, will strike them as incredible.
In this sense, they are like the Maxwellian physicists about whom Max Planck remarked that “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it” (Kuhn 1970, p. 150).
But physics is charmed in comparison to economics, since it is inherently an empirical discipline, and quantum mechanics gave the only explanation to the empirically quantifiable black body problem. Planck’s confidence that a new generation would take the place of the old was therefore well-founded. But in economics, not only will the neoclassical old guard resist change, they could, if economic circumstances stabilise, give rise to a new generation that accepts their interpretation of the crisis. The is how the success of the Keynesian counter-revolution came about, and it is why we have we entered this crisis with an even more rabid neoclassicism than confronted Keynes in the 1930s.
The first thing that the global financial crisis should therefore do to economics is to galvanise student protest about the lack of debate within academic economics itself, because dissident academic economists will be unable to shift the tuition of economics themselves without massive pressure from the student body.
I speak from my own experience, when I was one of many students who agitated against neoclassical economics in the early 1970s at Sydney University, and campaigned for the establishment of a Political Economy Department. Were it not for the protests by the students against what we then rightly saw as a deluded approach to economics, the non-neoclassical staff at Sydney University would have been unable to affect change themselves.
Though we won that battle at Sydney University, we lost the war. The economic downturn of the mid-1970s allowed for the defeat of what Joan Robinson aptly called the Bastard Keynesianism of that era, and its replacement by Friedman’s “monetarism”. Our protests were also wrongly characterised as being essentially anti-capitalist. Though there were indeed many who were anti-capitalist within the Political Economy movement, the real target of student protest was a poor theory of how capitalism operates, and not capitalism itself.
Similar observations can be made about the PAECON movement today, where student dissatisfaction with neoclassical economics in France spilled over into a worldwide movement. Though the initial impact of the movement was substantial, neoclassical dominance of economic pedagogy continued unabated. The movement persisted, but its relevance to the real economy was not appreciated because that economy appeared to be booming. Now that the global economy is in crisis, student pressure is needed once more to ensure that, this time, real change to economic pedagogy occurs.
Business pressure is also essential. Business groups to some degree naively believed that those who proclaimed the virtues of the market system, and who argued on their side in disputes over income distribution, were their allies in the academy, while critics of the market were their enemies. I hope that this financial catastrophe will convince the business community that its true friends in the academy are those who understand the market system, whether they criticise or praise it. As much as we need students to revolt over the teaching of economics, we need business to bring pressure on academic economics departments to revise their curricula because of the financial crisis.
Changing Economics
The pedagogic pressure from students and the wider community has to be matched by the accelerated development of alternatives to neoclassical economics. Though we know much more today about the innate flaws in neoclassical thought than was known at the time of the Great Depression (Keen 2001), the development of a fully-fledged alternative to it is still a long way off. There are multiple alternative schools of thought extant—from Post Keynesian to Evolutionary and Behavioural Economics, and Econophysics—but these are not developed enough to provide a fully fledged alternative to neoclassical economics.
This should not dissuade us from dispensing completely with the neoclassical approach. For some substantial period, and especially while the actual economy remains in turmoil, we have to accept a period of turmoil in the teaching of and research into economics. Hanging on to parts of a failed paradigm simply because it has components that other schools lack would be a tragic mistake, because it is from precisely such relics that a neoclassical vision could once again become dominant when—or rather if—the market economy emerges from this crisis.
Key here should be a rejection of neoclassical microeconomics in its entirety. This was the missing component of Keynes’s revolution. While he tried to overthrow macroeconomics shibboleths like Say’s Law, he continued to accept not merely the microeconomic concepts such as perfect competition, but also their unjustified projection into macroeconomic areas—as with his belief that the marginal productivity theory of income distribution, which is fundamentally a micro concept, applied at the macro level of wage determination.
From this failure to expunge the microeconomic foundations of neoclassical economics from post-Great Depression economics arose the “microfoundations of macroeconomics” debate that led ultimately to rational expectations representative agent macroeconomics, in which the economy is modelled as a single utility maximising individual who is blessed with perfect knowledge of the future.
Fortunately, behavioural economics provides the beginnings of an alternative vision as to how individuals operate in a market environment, while multi-agent modelling and network theory give us foundations for understanding group dynamics in a complex society. They explicitly emphasise what neoclassical economics has evaded: that aggregation of heterogeneous individuals results in emergent properties of the group which cannot be reduced to the behaviour of any “representative individual” amongst them. These approaches should replace neoclassical microeconomics completely.
The changes to economic theory beyond the micro level involve a complete recanting of the neoclassical vision. The vital first step here is to abandon the obsession with equilibrium.
The fallacy that dynamic processes must be modelled as if the system is in continuous equilibrium through time is probably the most important reason for the intellectual failure of neoclassical economics. Mathematics, sciences and engineering long ago developed tools to model out of equilibrium processes, and this dynamic approach to thinking about the economy should become second nature to economists.
An essential pedagogic step here is to hand the teaching of mathematical methods in economics over to mathematics departments. Any mathematical training in economics, if it occurs at all, should come after students have done at least basic calculus, algebra and differential equations—the last area being one about which most economists of all persuasions are woefully ignorant. This simultaneously explains why neoclassical economists obsess too much about proofs, and why non-neoclassical economists like those in the Circuit School (Graziani 1989) have had such difficulties in translating excellent verbal ideas about credit creation into coherent dynamic models of a monetary production economy (c.f. Keen 2009).
Neoclassical economics has effectively insulated itself from the great advances made in these genuine sciences and engineering in the last forty years, so that while its concepts appear difficult, they are quaint in comparison to the sophistication evident today in mathematics, engineering, computing, evolutionary biology and physics. This isolation must end, and for a substantial while economics must eat humble pie and learn from these disciplines that it has for so long studiously ignored. Some researchers from those fields have called for the wholesale replacement of standard economics curricula with at least the building blocks of modern thought in these disciplines, and in the light of the catastrophe economists have visited upon the real world, their arguments carry substantial weight.
For example, in response to a paper critical of trends in econophysics (Gallegatti et al. 2006), the physicist Joe McCauley responded that, though some of the objections were valid, the problems in economics proper were far worse. He therefore suggested that:
the economists revise their curriculum and require that the following topics be taught: calculus through the advanced level, ordinary differential equations (including advanced), partial differential equations (including Green functions), classical mechanics through modern nonlinear dynamics, statistical physics, stochastic processes (including solving Smoluchowski–Fokker–Planck equations), computer programming (C, Pascal, etc.) and, for complexity, cell biology. Time for such classes can be obtained in part by eliminating micro- and macro-economics classes from the curriculum. The students will then face a much harder curriculum, and those who survive will come out ahead. So might society as a whole. (McCauley 2006, p. 608; emphasis added)
The economic theory that should eventually emerge from the rejection of neoclassical economics and the basic adoption of dynamic methods will come much closer than neoclassical economics could ever do to meeting Marshall’s dictum that “The Mecca of the economist lies in economic biology rather than in economic dynamics” (Marshall 1920: xiv). As Veblen correctly surmised over a century ago (Veblen 1898), the failure of economics to become an evolutionary science is the product of the optimising framework of the underlying paradigm, which is inherently antithetical to the process of evolutionary change. This reason, above all others, is why the neoclassical mantra that the economy must be perceived as the outcome of the decisions of utility maximising individuals must be rejected.
Economics also has to become fundamentally a monetary discipline, right from the consideration of how individuals make market decisions through to our understanding of macroeconomics. The myth of “the money illusion” (which can only true in a world without debt) has to be dispelled from day one, while our macroeconomics has to be that of a monetary economy in which nominal magnitudes matter—precisely because they are the link between the value of current output and the financing of accumulated debt. The dangers of excessive debt and deflation simply cannot be comprehended from a neoclassical perspective, which—along with the inability to reason outside the confines of equilibrium—explains the profession’s failure to assimilate Fisher’s prescient warnings (Fisher 1933; few people realise that Friedman’s preferred rate of inflation in his “Optimum Quantity of Money” paper was “a decline in prices at the rate of at least 5 per cent per year, and perhaps decidedly more”; Friedman 1969, p. 46, emphasis added).
The discipline must also become fundamentally empirical, in contrast to the faux empiricism of econometrics. By this I mean basing itself on the economic and financial data first and foremost—the collection and interpretation of which has been the hallmark of contributions by econophysicists—and by respecting economic history, a topic that has been expunged from economics departments around the world. It, along with a non-Whig approach to the history of economic thought, should be restored to the economics curriculum. Names that currently are absent from modern economics courses (Marx, Veblen, Keynes, Fisher, Kalecki, Schumpeter, Minsky, Sraffa, Goodwin, to name a few) should abound in such courses.
Ironically, one of the best calls for a focus on the empirical data sans a preceding economic model came from two of the most committed neoclassical authors, 2004 Nobel Prize winners Finn Kydland and Edward Prescott, when they noted that “the reporting of facts—without assuming the data are generated by some probability model—is an important scientific activity. We see no reason for economics to be an exception” (Kydland & Prescott 1990, p. 3). The failure of these authors to live up to their own standards1 should not be replicated in post-neoclassical economics.
References
- Irving Fisher, (1933). “The debt-deflation theory of great depressions”, Econometrica, Vol. 1, pp. 337-357.
- Milton Friedman, (1969), The Optimum Quantity of Money and Other Essays, Macmillan, Chicago.
- Mauro Gallegatti, Steve Keen, Thomas Lux & Paul Ormerod (2006). “Worrying Trends in Econophysics”, Physica A Vol. 370, pp. 1-6.
- Graziani Augusto, (1989). “The Theory of the Monetary Circuit”, Thames Papers in Political Economy, Spring, pp. 1-26. Reprinted in M. Musella and C. Panico (eds) (1995). The Money Supply in the Economic Process, Edward Elgar, Aldershot.
- Steve Keen, (2001). Debunking Economics: the naked emperor of the social sciences, Pluto Press & Zed Books, Sydney & London (click here for the eBook).
- Steve Keen, (2009). “Bailing out the Titanic with a Thimble”, Economic Analysis and Policy, Vol. 39 Issue 1 (forthcoming).
- Thomas Kuhn, (1962). The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, University Of Chicago Press, Chicago.
- Finn E. Kydland and Edward C. Prescott, (1990). “Business Cycles: Real Facts and a Monetary Myth”, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, Vol. 23, no. 1, pp. 3–19.
- Joseph L. McCauley (2006). “Response to ‘Worrying Trends in Econophysics’”, Physica A 371, pp. 601–609.
- Alfred Marshall, (1920). Principles of Economics, 9th Edition, Macmillan, London.
- Edward C. Prescott (1999). “Some Observations on the Great Depression”, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, Vol. 23, pp. 25–31.
- Thorstein Veblen, (1898). “Why is Economics not an Evolutionary Science?”, The Quarterly Journal of Economics, pp. 373-397.


Lyonwiss,
I agree with you, though the confusion may occur because of what I see as neoclassical belief. Because markets are supposedly in equilibrium or close to equilibrium, then the crises can’t be caused by markets – another cause has to be found – which is government. I tend to think it is a combination of both. Whether it is self-serving politicians or the rich (millionaires, billionaires, corporations and corporate executives) who defile the market, there is plenty of blame to go around, not just denouncing the government.
I’ve discovered that neoclassicals often have a strange definition of what constitutes a free market: when the poor have been stripped of government help, not the rich. We’re supposed to believe that an economy is in equilibrium when market distortions are caused by the lack of supply in professional services, IPR, bailouts, numerous subsidies, etc. The growing strength of IPR and the growth in PR, marketing, and advertising (mostly misinformation and disinformation) further undermines markets, when Australia is supposed to be becoming more free market, not less.
Aac,
Probably the eminent US social philosopher of the 20th century, John Dewey, once remarked: “As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business, the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance.”
Going after politicians, while useful, will not change the substance.
Philip
John Dewey is more or less saying that restraining the behaviour of corporations is more important than restraining the behaviour of governments that are supposed to govern the behaviour of the corporations.
I’m not sure how you would restrain corporations without first restraining the behaviour of government. Denninger has a blog on the very subject at http://market-ticker.org/archives/910-Whats-Disturbing-About-The-Truth.html where he quotes from the US’s Declaration of Independence:
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Thus the problem of leaders eventually becoming corrupts is well known. The question arises how best to prevent the corruption; it’s near impossible as constitutions etc… can all be eventually overridden. At present in The Australian” http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25213487-5013871,00.html we have:
“University of New England law lecturer and former Nationals party officer Bryan Pape has challenged the Rudd Government’s $900 bonus to working Australians, arguing that it is not covered by tax law because it is a gift.”
Thus is it legal?. Note whether people deserve/need the 900 is another matter and if they did then is a ‘gift’ the right way to go about it.
Leaders are in a position of trust and breaking that trust is very serious business indeed.
If people on this blog are not aware of the BrisConnections fiasco then please read:
http://business.smh.com.au/business/macquarie-takes-stake-in-brisconnections-20090330-9g8e.html
Macquarie bank in collusion with the Queensland Government setpup BrisConnections which has shares trading on the ASX at 0.1c but with a liability of $2. Ordinary Australians looking at the project without reading the prospectus said to themselves! Wow what a great buy, and infrastructure project so cheap.
These retail investors share some blame for not reading the prospectus but they certainly do not deserve to be destroyed by pressing the Enter key on the keyword. Most people would be forgiven for believing that buying shares would never invoke such a massive liability. In fact everyone I have mentioned this case to have said that they can’t believe that it is even possible to sell shares that way. I encourage readers of this blog to write to the Queensland Government and Macquarie bank and to show disgust (disclaimer – I dO NOT own shares of any type).
This case is one of epic proportions and to think the Queensland Government is backing it is to know that we have crossed the Rubicon.
Philip, Lyonwiss etc,
It would be fundamentally naive to think that politicians give a “rats” about any particular school of economic thought.Much more so if one were to suppose they actually knew anything about it.
No. Politicians operate on a singular belief system; to get re-elected. That’s all, nothing more. They feed at the public trough, so your vote matters.
And what better way to secure your vote than buy it and voila; KR’s polls show the highest since that other socialist PM Bob Hawke. And all he has done is follow the advice of the world’s leading economists.
The GFC has handed KR his Keynesian license to loot Aussie taxpayers. He’s still out spending, so the bil hasn’t come due just yet. But it will eventually. That will be the time to determine whether it has been well spent.
Phillip,
Many many initial shares have calls, which is what these BrisConnect shares are about.
The concept of limited liability, is the limit of any uncalled amount on the shares, barring NL mining companies.
Most people do not encounter this as they usually encounter shares on the secondary market, but this ignorance should not be excused.
RE: The latest US stock market rally.
Naked Capitalism explains the technicalities of a letter written by an insider at an AIG derivatives desk, explaining how US Bank profits were manipulated courtesy of AIG trade unwinds. Just more scamming and looting but this time with direct participation for Geithner.
“What this all means is that the statements by major banks, i.e. JPM, Citi, and BofA, regarding abnormal profitability in January and February were true, however these profits were 1) one-time in nature due to wholesale unwinds of AIG portfolios, 2) entirely at the expense of AIG, and thus taxpayers, 3) executed with Tim Geithner’s (and thus the administration’s) full knowledge and intent, 4) were basically a transfer of money from taxpayers to banks (in yet another form) using AIG as an intermediary.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/03/guest-post-banks-were-profitable-in.html
If one considers that this rally was sparked and then fuelled by sentiment towards the banks and their supposed return to “profitability” in January and February, you could be forgiven for thinking the worst is over. But then again, maybe it is not. Maybe that’s what we are all expected to believe.
Hi Steve,
and everyone else. I’m a newby and until this point, an observer; I have been reading your blog and the numerous very helpful / insightful comments for a while now (and told everyone I can about it). I have not studied economics (so a lot of the references made have required me to research them to attempt some basic understanding of their context in various posts) but I have still found a lot of what I read to immediately make sense. I suppose this can be attributed to my lack of philosophical bias or maybe it’s just that the beginners mind is full of so many more possibilities.
Whatever the case, since I have become ‘a student of Keen’ I have had some ideas that I figured I could share with a whole bunch of less naive and more educated people in order to give you some entertainment and hopefully get some direction…but I don’t want to hijack this forum. So where can i go to discuss economic ideas I might have or is it in line with the site protocol to bring them up here??
EG. One thing I’ve been mulling over is the concept of nationalising America’s car manufacturers rather than bailing them out (or the banks for that matter) I have a fair bit of rationale around this. Another is the idea that a lack of emotional intelligence in high level financial decision making is what ultimately led to the reality of today…and other ideas…so much to talk about…
Having mentioned that, I am aware of the premise of the site being a broad discussion of the reasons behind the imminent debt deflation and strategies that could help us respond to this but you see Steve, it’s very hard not to get thinking about all kinds of related topics when one reads your thoughts regularly. Thank you for thinking differently.
Rustypenny said,
“Most people do not encounter this as they usually encounter shares on the secondary market, but this ignorance should not be excused.”
Ah, so because reail investors werent as smart as Mac Back they deserve to be in 10s of millions of dollars of debt.
Has there ever been a case where retail investors could buy shares online and be liable for 10s of millions of dollars.
Macquarie Banks is a criminal entity that deserves to be destroyed. Anyone that supports them deserves what’s comming.
To Macca,
Just read your post ‘Re: The latest US Stock market rally’. It interests me because I had a sneaking suspicion that the Jan Citi figures were
cooked for two reasons:
It seemed impossible -all of us here know how badly in trouble that bunch and their relatives are. It was totally inconceivable for me to imagine they had made any money at all…
If I was in politics you might call me a ‘hollowman’ although that would be entirely untrue and quite hurtful! I happen to be an insider in the world of ‘selected public words and phrases that stick’ and I use my power for good not evil. So when I see something like the Citi announcement I look through my unique prism. And I saw a massive LIE (or ok – misrepresentation). Alan Kholer recently said (if I remember correctly) that there’s nothing like a desperate banker and he’s right. They’ll stop at nothing. I had already assumed they would simply lie since there was no other option that I could see so It wasn’t really a surprise to hear that ‘unexpected profit announcement’. I think I laughed out loud. It was an attempt to ‘restore confidence’ and then on top of that we had the Geithner Plan for toxic waste which (once carefully worded details were out) was equally welcomed by desperate investors. I’m scared that it’s got to that.
MACCA,
Point taken. Over the years, I have seen glimmers of alternative thinking of economics by political parties, in this case, the Greens. I remember a while ago I stumbled upon the WA Greens’ website. To my surprise, they had an extensive commentary on neoclassical theory and it’s flaws, making heavy use of Keen’s Debunking Economics. It’s not much, but it is something.
I think there are at least some government officials and politicians who may know something about the nonsensical theory that policy is based upon – who they are I don’t know but it would be interesting to find out.
East doesn’t necessarily mean ‘China’. I think that we are looking at a non-USD centric world. Rubles, Yuan, Yen and Euro will be as important as USD.
alt49er,
I also was impressed with Bendigo Bank’s community focus, etc.
Then this (Jan 09):
http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/business/bendigo-bank-buys-macquaries-margin-lending-portfolio-for-52ml/1402404.aspx
What a shame. Firstly, the Bendigo Bank chooses to deal with the criminal syndicates at Macquarie Bank. Secondly, they seem to think it is a good idea to further inflate the nation’s credit bubbles by promoting margin lending (which I think is probably the most pernicious form of credit creation available to unsophisticated “investors”).
If other community banks are any better then I’d like to hear about it. Out of curiousity I spoke to a loans officer and a branch manager at the Bananacoast Credit Union, headquartered in Coffs Harbour. They were lovely people who were willing to lend me six times my gross annual salary for a home loan, with only a 5% deposit… and this was in late January 2009!
The Guardian journalist George Monbiot has a good article on what should’ve been in place of foreign exchange.
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/11/18/clearing-up-this-mess/
Frank,
Thank you for the link to the recent George Soros interview. I think George Soros is one of the few high profile people that understands the seriousness of the GFC. Back in October he was interviewed again and acurately predicted the GFC would get worse mainly because he could clearly see the authorities were doing too little, too late. It was a great interview, but what really got my attention is you could see that this hardened man was actually very nervous about what he could see happening around him and was even more pessimistic than Steve Keen about the future (believe it or not!).
If you are interested, here is the link:-
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html
Philip, Jim
The bancor will be implemented as a modified SDR under the auspices of new financial regulatory bodies. This is a part of what the G20 is expected to be able to deliver.
Jim
Very interesting interview – I fully agree with everything said, and it is interesting to see how Obama tries to follow Mr.Soros’s advice as much as possible. I enthusiastically support the idea that stimulus through investment in new tech and infrastructure is the way forward.
I disagree with Soros’s assertion that the future cannot be predicted. It is just that the wrong types of model are in use. The models must include ourselves – either by playing games (Second Life), by simulating human intelligence, or by direct imposition (command economy)
homes4aussies,
I remember Steve saying something about the rate of foreclosures been kept artificially low by banks “pressuring” homeowners to voluntarily sell before they technically went bankrupt. Apparently, this was keeping the foreclosure rate four times lower than what it would really be. Any ideas about this? (I could be wrong on this one).
Seems plausible to me, Philip. Much talk about banks attempting “workouts” with corporates, so I imagine they would be undertaking a whole range of measures to lower the risk associated with the mortgage books which make up about 50% of the big 4′s assets. Could explain some of the disparity between bank loans and RMBS loans that the RBA has been discussing in latest Financial Stability Reviews.
Phillip,
“Ah, so because retail investors werent as smart as Mac Back they deserve to be in 10s of millions of dollars of debt.”
You don’t have to be smart as Mac Bank to know shares can potentially have calls outstanding.
That is the concept of limited liability, you are liable to any unpaid amount that can be called on the share.
If you don’t understand that fact, then you shouldn’t be buying shares.
[quote]Has there ever been a case where retail investors could buy shares online and be liable for 10s of millions of dollars.[/quote]
IPO’s galore.
[quote]Macquarie Banks is a criminal entity that deserves to be destroyed. Anyone that supports them deserves what’s comming.[/quote]
No, shifting the downside of risk to retail clients should never be excused.
The same exists with Storm Financial clients, people with dozens of investment properties. They are keen to enjoy 25% returns per year, they are keen to increase rental returns 100% in two years, to be completely indulgent in greed. You don’t buy a BrisConnect share in this environment for other than the desire to fleece someone else. There is a downside risk to this, and it is coming home to roost.
It is an obscene claim to say its the greed of the few who caused this. It’s the greed of many, baby boomers and ‘aspirational’ class alike paying reckless amounts for assets and attempting to shift this burden buy increases yields regardless of them not be sustainable.
Steve, hi from a first timer who is very impressed with your analysis which is the only explanation I’ve heard that seems to make any sense of the mess we are in.
I gather from your writings that you think we just have to take our medicine as part of the recovery. Is there a model to explain how many will have to loose everything so that others can get their hands on enough cash to pay off their debts? ie to get aggregate household debt levels back to a sustainable 25-50% from the 150%+ is there a model or even rule of thumb to describe the depth of the depression?
If debt were to be retired are there preferred recipients of this generosity?ie household or business? partial or total?
I was a teenager in the ’70′s, the last period of high inflation. You have mentioned inflating our way out of debt- do you think this cure mightn’t be as bad as the disease?
After (and while) the dust settles we obviously need to renew the system. Money at it’s most basic is the medium of exchange. Banking requires that we allow the banker to use money as if it were a commodity, and we allow banks to make money out of money. This is a corruption of money, but can be workable if the process is kept in check. The only other way to do this should be gambling, which of course is what the various money markets have become. Is this over-simplification to say that all activities (beyond limited credit creation for banks) which “use money to make money”( rather than goods and services) should be eliminated?