After extensive and much appreciated critical feedback on the draft designs, this blog entry showcases the three T-Shirt designs I’m producing for the Walk to Kosciuszko.
Each has the words “I was hopelessly wrong on house prices. Ask me how” as required by the bet. Each also has a graphical answer to the question:
- Timing;
- Our Debt Bubble; and
- Government manipulation of the market in the form of the First Home Owners Grant.
Some blog members have made strong cases for a plain T-shirt, but I will stick with the graph-augmented designs. I entered public debate to make the points that (a) we were in for a serious debt-induced economic crisis; and (b) that conventional economic theory had helped cause this crisis by ignoring the role of credit. I intend using this Walk to continue communicating those messages.
I’ve taken aboard the observations that the distorted text made it harder to read both the text and the graphs, but I am placing the text strategically in each graph to emphasise the message of each T-shirt.
Some bloggers have also argued that I should replace “Walking against Australia’s property mania” with “Walking against Australia’s property bubble”. I am sticking with mania, because I believe that future generations, looking back on this period, will regard it as at least the equivalent–and probably the Master–of previous ages of delusion like the Tulip Mania, the South Sea Bubble, and John Law and the Mississippi Company. Charles Mackay popularised the word “mania” to describe such periods in his masterful Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, and I think that term fittingly describes the period of delusion we are living through.
If the above choices mean that the T-shirts work less well for visual bites on TV and the like, so be it. I would rather see them as historical artefacts first, and communication devices second.
1: Timing
The first T-shirt shows CPI-adjusted house price indices for Japan, the USA and Australia, starting from the common date of June 1986 (the earliest date in the ABS time series for established home prices).
Japan’s real house price index rose by 54% between 1986 and 1991 during its Bubble Economy phase, peaked at 154.75 in February 1991 in the early days of the Bubble’s bursting. By March 2009 had fallen to 63.961–a fall of 58% over 18 years.
When Japan’s Bubble Economy fell into the heap that became known as The Lost Decade–and which is now closer to The Lost Two Decades–there were numerous commentaries that something as absurd as Japan’s bubble could never occur in America, given its much more efficient and transparent financial system. As a well-educated Minskian economist, I scoffed at the time at such reports, but even I didn’t appreciate how accurate my scepticism would prove to be.
The American real estate bubble–which began in 1997 after a period of relatively depressed prices after the 1990s recession–clearly dwarfed Japan’s. Between 1986 and late 2005, American real house prices rose by almost 88%. They then fell 36.5%, before starting to rise again recently–with the US version of Australia’s First Home Owners Grant playing a large role in the turnaround. Though prices have apparently bottomed, there are plenty of arguments to expect this to be only a temporary respite–from the size of the inventory of unsold houses to the approaching wave of defaults by mortgagees whose Alt-A “Option ARM” mortgages are about to reset).
However, both the Japanese and American house price bubbles are pygmies compared to Australia’s bubble. Australia’s still unburst bubble drove the real price of housing to 140 percent above the level of June 1986–that is, real house prices are now 2.4 times what they were in mid-1986 (the peak in real terms is still the pre-First Home Vendors Grant level of January 2008, though the nominal index is now 8 higher percent than then).
2: Our Debt Bubble
The reason that our house price bubble has kept going while other less hardy companions have already popped is the same old same old: debt. The T-shirt itself emphasises the aggregate level of private debt to GDP over the last 150 years, to make the point that this is the biggest debt bubble in our history. The previous two record highs were in 1882 at 104% of GDP, and 1931 at 77% of GDP. Today’s record is 158% as of March 2008.
This comparison actually understates the degree to which our current debt predicament is worse than any previous one, since those previous peaks were affected by deflation: the debt to GDP ratio rose between 1930 and 1931 (and 1890 and 1892) despite falling debt levels, because output and prices were falling faster than debt. In the 1930s, this phenomenon increased the debt to GDP level by about 10 percent over its pre-crisis peak.
We have yet to experience deflation, and yet our current debt level already far exceeds those previous peaks.
Household debt has played a pivotal role in this bubble. The next chart (which won’t be used for a T-shirt) makes that point. Mortgage debt rose fivefold (as a percentage of GDP) between 1990 and today. Without this debt binge, Australia’s private debt to GDP ratio today would be only slightly above the 1930s peak, rather than being twice its level.
The chart also highlights one other important point: a large reason why Australia has had such a mild GFC so far is because Australian households were enticed back into debt by the First Home Vendors Boost, and by the impact of the Government stimulus package upon household disposable incomes.
Households were reducing their mortgage exposure prior to the introduction of The Boost: mortgage debt had peaked at 81.3% of GDP in June 2008, and was trending down prior to the Boost. It then hit a bottom of 80.3% in December 2008 before rising to an all-time high of 86.8 in January 2010.
The change has been less extreme when mortgage debt is measured against Household Disposable Income (HDI), since the Australian government’s stimulus package and the interest rate cuts by the RBA boosted household incomes by almost ten percent last year. As a result, mortgage debt fell only slightly as a percentage of HDI, from 133.6% to 130.3%, and it took longer to fall. But ultimately, even though incomes had been boosted so substantially, the increase in mortgage debt last year finally exceeded the increase in incomes: by January 2010, the mortgage debt to HDI ratio had hit a new peak of 134.2%
The overwhelmingly important reason why this happened is the policy that the Government called the First Home Owners Boost, and which I describe by the more accurate name of the First Home Vendors Boost. As the final T-shirt shows, this is the fifth time in Australia’s recent economic history that the Government has manipulated the property market as a means of stimulating the economy.
3: The First Home Owners Grant
The First Home Owners Grant was first introduced in 1983; while it’s hard to locate discussion on why the grant was introduced (here’s a Hansard link for anyone with more time on their hand than I have to research this), the Grant was introduced when Australia was deep in the recession of the early 1980s, and during the first year of the new Hawke Labor Government. It is therefore likely that then, as now, the Grant was intended to boost economic activity by encouraging the housing market.
That was explicitly the purpose to enhancements to the Grant in 1988, in the aftermath to the Stock Market Crash of the previous year. The 2000 reintroduction of the Grant by the Howard Liberal Government was ostensibly a short-lived boost to the housing sector to get it over the impact of the introduction of the Goods and Services Tax (GST), but it was quickly turned to its customary role of boosting economic activity when a recession was feared in 2001 and the Grant was doubled.
The introduction of the GST is long forgotten of course, but the Grant lived on–and it was then boosted again in September 2008 as part of the Rudd Labor Government’s stimulus package to fight the GFC.
Each time it was introduced, the Grant worked as intended–and it worked not merely because it injected additional Government money into the economy, but also because it encouraged Australians to take on more mortgage debt. Each additional A$1,000 was turned into anything up to an additional $10,000 of buying power, so that while the Buyer got an additional $7,000 from the Government, the Seller (after a very satisfactory auction…) got an additional $30,000 or so from the buyer’s bank.
The Seller then used this money in turn to get a still larger loan from their bank, so that the Grant money was levered at least twice.
This double leverage is a major reason why we have a housing bubble today–and why we had one in 1988, and 2001 before that.
I don’t, like some analysts, blame the housing crisis solely on government policy: for me, the ultimate cause of our housing and financial crises will always be the innate willingness of the financial sector to extend debt. But it is certainly obvious that Government meddling in the housing market has seeded a bubble that the financial sector has then been only too willing to exploit.
As long-time readers know, I railed against this latest manipulation of the housing market when it was first introduced, and again when the scale of take-up of the Boost was first reported. My first post was the only one to draw a response from a Government Minister to any of my writings. Though this reads like a form letter that many critics of this policy may have received, the exchange is still worth reproducing here:
—–Original Message—–
From: Steve Keen [mailto:S.Keen@uws.edu.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 October 2008 8:59 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: Debtwatch comment on First Home Buyers Policy
I argue in the attached that doubling the First Home Buyers grant is a continuation of the policies that caused the economic crisis in the
first place.
Associate Professor Steve Keen
From: Plibersek, Tanya[mailto:Tanya.Plibersek@fahcsia.gov.au]
Sent: Thu 16/10/2008 5:19 PM
To: Steve Keen
Subject: RE: Debtwatch comment on First Home Buyers Policy [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dear Steve
Thanks for your email about the First Home Owners Boost announced by the Prime Minister and Treasurer. I understand the concerns you raise in your email, however, as well as helping Australians into a home of their own, this measure will bring much needed stimulus to the housing market to support the Government’s macroeconomic agenda at a time of serious global uncertainty.
Housing is very important to the Australian economy. Investment in housing accounts for about 6 per cent of the overall economy, and housing is the major source of financial security for millions of Australians and their families.
Expanding support for first home buyers in this fashion is right for the uncertain economic conditions that we now face. It will also help to shore up housing activity in a sector that may otherwise slow. I have attached a fact sheet which provides some more information about the announcement.
Best wishes
Tanya
From: Steve Keen [mailto:S.Keen@uws.edu.au]
Sent: Thu 16/10/2008 7:05 PM
To: Plibersek, Tanya
Subject: RE: Debtwatch comment on First Home Buyers Policy [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Dear Tanya,
I appreciate your perspective, but I remain of the opinion that this is a misguided policy.
The housing market was seriously over-stimulated by debt-financed speculation in the last one and a half decades, and most of that stimulus did far more to boost price levels and increase unaffordability, than it did to increase supply.
The financial security promised by housing has become financial insecurity in the USA and the UK, and much of the OECD, and it will inevitably prove so for Australia too, which as you are aware has the most expensive housing relative to incomes in the OECD. True security only exists when house prices keep step with incomes. When they rise faster for sustained periods, on the back of even faster increases in debt, the financial wealth created is both fictitious and fragile, as we are now seeing on the daily news.
Part of the reason for Australia’s speculative bubble [I have made a slight grammatical edit here of the original] is the plethora of schemes in Australia which encourage speculation on house prices–from negative gearing, to capital gains tax at half the rate of income tax, the exemption of capital gains on principal residences, and of course the first home buyers scheme.
I would be far happier to see schemes to support renters and strengthen their rights, than yet another to encourage first home buyers into a grossly overvalued market.
Nonetheless I appreciate your email, and would like to keep in contact about this and the broader issues involved in our economic crisis.
Sincerely,
Steve
Now The Boost is behind us, and the evidence is in on its impact. There is no doubt that it stimulated the economy–possibly as much as the rest of the stimulus package and the RBA rate cuts combined. It also stimulated house prices through the roof–and it’s the main reason why I’ll be walking next month.
But it worked by seducing Australians back into debt, since (as I observed in a previous report), house prices can only continue rising compared to incomes if debt continues to rise faster still. This could continue after The Boost if the fire the Government lit in the market was carried on by “investors”–and that was and is certainly the hope expressed both by the Government and the property lobby.
My expectations, and that of many other critics like Adam Schwab, was that the FHVB would boost buyer numbers while it lasted, but cause a slump (in First Home Buyers at least) when it finished because (a) it would drag in many would-be First Home Buyers who would have purchased in later years into purchasing in 2009, thus inflating 2009 numbers at the expense of subsequent years; and (b) it would inflate prices so much that many other would-be First Home Buyers would decide to continue as renters instead.
That’s just from the borrowers side; the surprise move by Westpac to reduce its maximum LVR from 92% to 87% also made me feel that, just maybe, the days of rising leverage driving house prices were coming to an end. That doesn’t sound like much, but it means that a purchaser who had her eye on a $1 million dream home and had the requisite funding prior to the change would now have to find an additional $50,000 in cash to bid the same amount–that’s a 62.5% increase in the deposit required to come up with the asking price wanted by the vendor (from $80,000 or 8% of the purchase price to $130,000 or 13% of the purchase price).
The question then is whether the “investors” who’ve been enticed into the market by the promise of rising prices could outweigh an inevitable fall in the number of First Home Buyers and the start of banks unwinding their excessive leverage beneath house prices.
Preliminary data doesn’t look that crash hot for the property bulls on both these fronts. Both the number and the value of new mortgages took an unprecedented fall once the FHVB expired, as the next two charts show.
So the odds are high that the ending of the FHVB will be one of several triggers for the long overdue bursting of the Australian property bubble–along with the unwinding of excessive housing leverage and the slowdown in the rate of growth of mortgage debt. The FHVB will then turn out to be what I anticipated: a short term success that sets up the conditions for a long term failure, and at the expense of the quarter of a million Australians who were enticed into mortgage debt by this temporarily successful but ultimately irresponsible policy.
For that reason, the T-Shirt I’ll be wearing on day one of The Walk is number 3 above.









March 17th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Real Estate.
Memento mori…
(Also for St Patrick’s day)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896,7667143,Irlandczycy_beda_burzyc_puste_osiedla.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com.au&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjdLuFLoO9UM6qp-ue8XGs_JiPq0w
But why won’t we read similar stories in our Aussie media?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/16/2847085.htm
March 17th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
A Tale of Two Depressions by Barry Eichengreen and Kevin O’Rourke (Updated 08 March 2010)
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421
We’re in recovery! ;0)
March 18th, 2010 at 7:34 am
A bubble in Australia?
This is a bubble:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNZe4JWeV1aw
I believe that if this is true (as the real data is a “State Secret”), the theories of our Chartalist friends will be tested very soon.
They invented printing long before Gutenberg I believe.
March 18th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Anecdote: Credit Unions are having their deposit base eroded – and they can’t access capital markets because they’re too small. This is obviously causing some concern.
It’s at the margins where the cracks start to show…
March 18th, 2010 at 10:52 am
How will an RMB revaluation affect China, the US, and the world?
http://mpettis.com/2010/03/how-will-an-rmb-revaluation-affect-china-the-us-and-the-world/
Very good discussion on possible scenarios for yuan revaluation and the trade-offs.
His conclusion –
‘Of course the cynic in me says getting a global solution will prove impossible. Each country that benefits in the short term from stonewalling on any aspect of the complex adjustment process will do so. So I guess that just leaves trade war. This is the year of the Tiger, after all.’
Fallout for Australia?
March 18th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Where the heck is deflation?
Ever thing except my salary has gone up.
Here are a few things gone up.
Electricity,Water,Gas
Council fees,
Rents,
Health Insurance,
Transport,
Food (Fish),
Mortgage repayments.
Where the heck is deflation?
March 18th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Don’t mess with Frau Merkel. She may sometimes have a trouble expressing her brilliant ideas but a few rusty Panzerkampfwagens may still be parked in her garage…
“‘We need an agreement that as a last resort it’s possible to exclude a country from the euro zone if again and again it doesn’t fulfill the requirements,’ Merkel said in an address to Germany’s lower house of parliament.”
“The European Central Bank released a paper in December that said kicking a profligate member out of the euro zone would be nearly impossible under European Union law, and that a country leaving the currency bloc voluntarily would probably also have to quit the EU altogether.
Merkel has said that an expulsion mechanism–first mentioned as a power of the European Monetary Fund her finance minister, Wolfgang Schaeuble, wants euro-zone members to establish–would require a treaty change for the currency bloc and the approval of all 27 EU members, not just the 16 countries that use the euro.
But winning such approval would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. ”
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100317-710798.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines
March 18th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Someone sent me the following, I hope they don’t mind but I have included their comments in the post:
****
In the Sydney Morning Herald we read today “Private land to be seized for housing” – for the article see
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/private-land-to-be-seized-for-housing-20100311-q1l0.html.
This proposal will allow the government to compulsorily acquire private property for developers.
Previously compulsory acquisition could only be carried out for a public purpose such as for roads. We will now see the property of citizens being grabbed by the government so that developers can make even bigger profits.
March 18th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
noah cross,
If there is an instability in China (initially debt-deflation then money printing) they may not need to revalue their currency at all. They may even throw some of these USD (or rather bonds) at the domestic market to soak up the liquidity (if there is inflation people will be willing to convert their savings onto USD like in any normal communist country – don’t ask me how this corresponds to MMT, this is what I remember from another former communist country).
The Chinese have already digested enough of the Western poison (in the form of balooning private debt and unchecked credit money creation spilling into asset bubbles). I had thought they weren’t that naive. But after ditching Marxism they tried to implement the system based on neoclassical economics. Bad luck. They will have to try again…
In my opinion it is only a matter of time before the major instability develops there and then they will have to revert back to the default mode – to manual control of the labour market, central planning and money printing (this is what MMT scholars propose to all of us as snake oil for any economic ailments anyway).
These are just my thoughts…
March 18th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Hey joshua
I feel the pain too but IMHO there will not be ‘general’ deflation. Only some markets and industry will experience deflation from the private debt.
Commodity prices up !
Asset prices down !
For example if and when Aus property corrects (Asset prices down ) its almost a sure thing that the currency will get smashed – some things will become more expensive (Commodity prices up)
Consider the american auto industry depression and contrast that to somthing like too big to fail banks, health care costs etc
Feel free to pick my general comments apart…Its just a feeling that I get….
March 18th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Hey Steve what do you reckon about the article?
House prices to surge amid property shortage crisis
18/03/2010 12:30:00 PM
By Stuart Fagg, ninemsn Money
http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1028885
March 18th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
utilitarian 61 … my highly leveraged 2 cents is that that 9msn article is superficial and does not deal with credit so it’s fallacious forecasting. It repeats common mistakes in the media but makes for a powerful subliminal fear message.
ak.. well, I won’t argue with your experience of communism first hand. Mine comes from history books. Anyway, it’s sort of not surprising they ditch Marxism and go for neo-classical economics as the apparatchiks can vaguely understand that. China is a likely crack up at some time but it will follow ruthless game theory logic to preserve the state and that may mean foreign influences can go hang. Financial instruments will be commanded for social cohesion.
March 18th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
The fall in lending in January was expected. In seasonally-adjusted terms, lending fell for owner-occupants but not for investors. This combination happened once before and prices kept on rising. Only when home lending falls UNEXPECTEDLY and/or falls for INVESTORS as well as owner-occupants will I take it as signalling a fall in prices. I explain my reasoning — with graphs — at http://blog.lvrg.org.au/2010/03/relax-housing-might-not-crash-this.html .
But you may infer from the article’s title (which doesn’t fully show in the URL) that I’m broadly sympathetic.
March 18th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Compliments of Barnaby Joyce’s website.
Anyone know who bought the securities and in what percentages?
March 19th, 2010 at 12:18 am
Citydoc,
For a breakdown of Commonwealth Securities by purchaser/holder, see RBA Statistics E3.xls, or take a look here –
http://barnabyisright.com/resources-articles/who-owns-our-debt/
At the end of my article you’ll see a chart I made depicting the growth of ‘non-resident’ holders of our securities since 1986.
Unfortunately, although approx. 63.3% of total securities on issue (at Sep 2009) were owned by ‘non-resident’ holders, I’m yet to find any details of just where those non-residents ARE in fact, resident.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:14 am
Barnaby @ #65,
Why are the non-resident owners of Australian Government securities such a national secret?
You would think this information would be publically available, especially since they hold 63.3% of the Commonwealth Securities pie.
It’s public information in the US as to who the US creditors are. So why is it such a drama here?
You would think that if Australian taxpayers were paying interest on these securities, we should know who are the creditors and what percentage of the securities they hold.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Citydoc,
Re: # 66
“You would think that if Australian taxpayers were paying interest on these securities, we should know who are the creditors and what percentage of the securities they hold.”
…… and what positions these holders are taking in other markets that affect the Aus economy and the wellbeing of the citizenry.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Hi Steve and excellent work…
I cannot wait for you to be vindicated and my bets are that you will be before the year is through.
Want to hear something crazy?
I have been warning my folks to sell there home now for 2 years. They are your usual “real estate will go up forever, always has always will” types.
They built a home at sippy downs on the sunshine coast about 4 years ago for around 400k.
They finally woke up to what about to happen (thank god) and get this, sold the property last week for 535 thousand !!!
They paid 220 thoudand for it? Talk about a bargain.
And here is the kicker, the new owner already owns 10 other investment propertys!
HOW CAN PEOPLE BE SO STUPID????
Sippy downs is a suburban hell hole, with no rail access, not enough buses, and no jobs in the local area. Every second resident drives to brisbane every morning to work!!!
My folks have just put a deposit on a 30 acre hobby farm down in victoria, with beautiful renovated 90 year old home, brand new and massive shedding, new fencing, 120 000 litres water tank storage and just connected to the wimmera mallee pipeline… 2km from town that is located on a major transport highway and has rail (good prospects for a low energy future
Anyhoo, to the topic at hand, I believe you should have a T-shirt that says.
END LEVERAGE ON LAND PURCHASES.
It is allowing leverage to be used in the purchase of land being, “god given” natural capitol, that is fueling realestate bubbles, nothing else.
It is a drain on wealth that funnels profits to government, developers and banks only.
Let savings and the power of supply and demand determine the value of land and thus make it affordable. Allow credit to only purchase the building itself.
Anything less than this is criminal, not that we can do anything about it now but when the collapse finally comes and the media give you the attention you rightfully deserve.
This is the answer that needs to be provided…
March 19th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Oh, I made a booboo in my last comment
They paid 220k for the hobby farm, not the sunshine coast mcmansion haha…
@ banaby is right and citydoc…
I agree, but lets not get caught up in political particanship. All parties are as crooked as one another.
You must also take into account that the howard government was riding the economic bubble of “prosperity”, let alone all the tax receipt incresing schemes they implemented!!!
But like I said, they are all crooked and I do not vote. Why should I when no party has ever served my interests.
They stopped sending me fines years ago so I guess they have given up on me haha.
And besides, Our governments are elected by the media who have full control over public opinion. That may sound a little too “conspiracy thoery” to some, but it is true.
Democracy is about electing ideas, not nice smiles or working class heroes.
What will it take for people to realise that, maybe a deflationary spiral wont be such a bad thing after all???
March 19th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Anglophera re #67,
“…… and what positions these holders are taking in other markets that affect the Aus economy and the wellbeing of the citizenry.”
Excellent point!
March 19th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Nicholas,
I agree. IMO also, they’re pretty much all crooks.
Frankly, the reason I started the Barnaby blog is because one day I decided to act on my increasing anger about the MSM following the ALP party line in smearing BJ as an economic illiterate. When the fact is, he is better qualified, both educationally and real-world practically, than Rudd/Swan/Tanner combined. And more particularly, he’s been ridiculed from Day 1 – even before becoming Shadow Finance Minister – for raising the issue of US (and other) sovereign default risks, yet as far as I’m concerned he is 100% right (economically, politically, and morally) to raise those kind of questions. For the Govt, Treasury, RBA, msm et al to ridicule and/or downplay those perfectly valid questions and concerns – espec. given their epic collective failure to foresee the GFC – is criminally irresponsible, IMHO.
They might all be crooks. But at least one has the basic commonsense to see trouble afoot, and courage to point it out.
IMO this country would be infinitely better off if we had more ‘bumbling’ country boy accountants running it, than the lying self-serving show ponies on both sides of the spectrum who do.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am
No argument there BIR! There are so many topics that are made “off limits” by the ridicule of anyone who raises them (not that I’m speaking from personal experience of course…). Barnaby is a standout on the Coalition side for going against that groupthink.
March 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
However given that much of what happens in financial markets is self fulfilling, people with a weight of opinion should be aware of that an be careful what they say.
It’s one thing to be a maverick and say whatever you think but people in politics are encumbered with a public responsibility in what they say and they should be held accountable for their statements.
There is also a matter of duty of care for people in the public limelight, because a little knowledge is potentially detrimental to people who don’t know better and perceive the public person as an absolute expert.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
TruthIsThereIsNoTruth&73
Public knowledge of a distorted system can have two beneficial effects, fist it can, by negative feedback effects, bring about a correction or reduction in the distortion of the system, and secondly it can bring about a major correction at an earlier time with less severe consequences. On the other hand if “public persons” who see a corrupted (in this case by debt) system becoming more corrupted and say nothing they are contributing to increases in the corruption and therefore a catastrophic detriment to people who do know better but have been deceived.
Some people claim to be absolute experts others are seen as such but on the whole people do know better.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
TITINT,
People in politics should be encumbered first and foremost with a public responsibility to tell the truth.
Your point about duty of care for people in the public limelight goes both ways. In context, anything that BJ has to say is deemed inconsequential (at best), especially by contrast to the exalted utterances of the RBA, Ken Henry, et al. If one is going to point out the duty of care of public officials, let’s begin by focussing the glare of scrutiny on those market-movers for whom the minutiae of their every pronouncement are considered nigh on Divine truth.
Let us imagine that Stevens and Henry, for example, did have inklings of trouble afoot prior to mid-2007.
(FWIW, if they didn’t – which seems manifest – then they should all be sacked. And if they did, then they should be sacked and indicted for criminal negligence – see Reserve Bank Act 1959, Sect 10(2)).
If they did sniff trouble, then morally (and legally), what the RBA and Treasury should have done is act preemptively to best protect the already-accumulated product of our years of labour – the savings and investments of the general public.
Yes, no doubt their offering direct warnings would have triggered trouble in the markets. So what? In my layman’s understanding, a sharp, fast, hard deflation is exactly what is required to address decades of misallocated capital and resources.
Better to have an honest, conscientious high official act to trigger that inevitability – after first taking all possible preemptive action to protect the product of the general public’s labours-to-date – than have our high officials wink and nod at the markets, enact policies that further indebt the public whilst kicking the can down the road, and then, act only to protect the crooks in the banking and funds management industry when the poo meets the fan, leaving them even wealthier than before, with greater power, and the general public shafted to the tune of hundreds of billions.
Give me an honest official who occasionally risks triggering ‘trouble’ by openly discussing reality, than a crooked one who delicately (and dishonestly) sustains “market confidence” for the benefit of the financial industry, at the direct & ultimate expense of the little guy.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
BrightSpark1,
I don’t disagree, however the same outcome can be achieved with more carefully chosen words. If our politicians are saying things which do potential damage to the perceived credit worthiness of the country that does not help in any way. Additionally extreme and poorly represented opinions do more damage to the cause than good, simply because they allow people on the other side of the argument to do a political demolition job on you. The point is, not that it is not a problem, just that it is not represented the right way.
For example – I have a strong anti war sentiment and I feel my opinion is poorly and detrimantally represented by groups of “hippies”. These kind of representations play into the hands of the opposition.
All of a sudden the problem becomes politically associated with Barnaby Joyce, who is way too easy to critise. This is a good example – you thought that by critising him I disagree that there is a problem.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
BarnabyIsRight,
I agree with your latest comment about (lack of) the integrity of some of our officials.
I believe we need to peel off not one but at least two layers of the onion. I agree with you in regards to the MSM treatment of Barnaby and lack of understanding of the most likely long term consequences of the policies of our Labor (and former Liberal) governments.
However the actual claim that the US is in danger of a sovereign default on bonds denominated in USD is simply incorrect – unless the “default” is redefined in the wider sense. Currently government spending (what includes servicing the public debt) is financed by taxes and selling new bonds to the markets. This restriction is not written in the Constitution of the US and one day the Treasury can start selling bonds directly to the Federal Reserve. In fact an equivalent operation has recently happened on a quite wide scale.
So in this particular case the statement about the sovereign default was technically incorrect. But if money printing is considered as a default (see http://www.economics.harvard.edu/files/faculty/51_This_Time_Is_Different.pdf ) then yes, I believe a new wave of “defaults” is quite likely in not so distant future. We may ask more questions about the possible political and social consequences of borrowing, not borrowing, printing money and not printing money – including inflation versus deflation and international problems with the foreign debt (we are dealing with the countries which are serial bullies).
And this is where I believe the actual discussion needs to start. It is good that Barnaby dared to utter the word “DEBT” which had been deemed to be too politically incorrect by all the oter politicians in Australia. But this is just the beginning of our discovery path. Please bear in mind that I am not a blind follower of MMT. But in my opinion their analysis of the monetary system of the economy is technically correct. It does not violate the accounting principles. Whether money is a pre-existing commodity which needs to be borrowed or is created and destroyed by the government is a separate issue. I believe that this depends on how we want the system to function (whether it should emulate the gold standard) and how the rules are defined. In the end we are only dealing with attributes in database tables. Both answers may be correct as it is impossible to tell whether the chicken or the egg came first (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg ).
As I have written elsewhere: we need to keep rocking the boat and confronting different ideas to get closer to the truth.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
TITINT @ 73,
You mentioned:
***
” It’s one thing to be a maverick and say whatever you think but people in politics are encumbered with a public responsibility in what they say and they should be held accountable for their statements.
There is also a matter of duty of care for people in the public limelight, because a little knowledge is potentially detrimental to people who don’t know better and perceive the public person as an absolute expert. ”
***
There is also a duty of care for Australian public officials not to mislead or deceive the Australian community.
In particular, there has been no concerted effort by our elected representatives to hose down Australian property speculation. As a result, this inaction will have worsened the effects of any property correction.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
TruthIsThereIsNoTruth,
This sounds a bit postmodernist to me, sorry about that. So we are not screwed up if we dont tell the Chinese about that?
Forget about what happened after circa 1968, it was all lie. Marketing will not replace the reality but can make us even more delusional.
Only the truth will make us free.
We HAVE to talk about problems rather than keep pussycatting in the politically correct world. Barnaby is right in this case.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
“People in politics should be encumbered first and foremost with a public responsibility to tell the truth.”
- if anyone thinks they know the absolute “truth” in terms of economics they are either dillusional or a liar.
I find it a little bit cynical to be critising the economic management in Australia given that in one of the biggest crisis since the great depression, Australia did not even have a technical recession. True they’ve screwed a whole bunch of home owners or potential first home owners(like me), but that’s only part of the picture. This kind of force the market to correct itself rhetoric smells like the old ‘recesion we had to have’ rhetoric of Keating. If you are going to be meddling with the markets as a public figure – you better be damn sure you know what you are doing becuase the arrogance of thinking you can do that will unintentionally screw the little guy you are trying to protect 10 times worse than you could imagine.
March 19th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
“If you are going to be meddling with the markets as a public figure – you better be damn sure you know what you are doing becuase the arrogance of thinking you can do that will unintentionally screw the little guy you are trying to protect 10 times worse than you could imagine.” – FHOG being a good example
March 19th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
ak – the Chinese will keep buying our resources as long as it is in their interests. In terms of being creditors, not sure if it is China buying our government bonds but taking the US as an example, it is guaranteed they know more than anyone else exactly what is going on and what their intentions are. Part of the reason they know, is because they have the resources to get plenty people on the case and find out. I could never sit there and have the arrogance to think that me and google know better then they do.
In terms of mentioning the word DEBT and trying to credit Barnaby with that? The opposition has been hammering the labour party about their spending, you hear about Barnaby because he is the first person to slip up and got hammered by the government, ruining the opposition case because up until that point the government was backpaddling. I do listen to a bit of parliament since it takes priority on the airwaves over news radio.
This is kind of proof of exactly what I am saying. All of a sudden everyone thinks that Barnaby is the debt guy – this kills the whole argument in that the public now associates the issue with someone like Barnaby.
March 19th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
I may of answered the earlier question.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/29132/
and
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/worry-over-china-bankroll/story-e6freooo-1225698713739
March 19th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
TITINT re #80,
Two points.
(1) Please read carefully what I actually wrote. I’m only crediting Barnaby with having the commonsense + courage to publicly address the issue of Sovereign Debt default risks in the US and elsewhere, and their possible implications for our economy.
(2) You wrote: “I find it a little bit cynical to be critising the economic management in Australia given that in one of the biggest crisis since the great depression, Australia did not even have a technical recession.”
Glad you raised that point TITINT. May I ask your good self, and all others here who I’m sure are far more economically-literate than I, to please review my reverse calculation of actual GDP in my blog post here –
http://barnabyisright.com/resources-articles/labor-fakes-gdp-by-4-5/
Seems to me that we may well have had a technical recession, for all anyone can tell. Because the Govt has significantly “revised” all the GDP stats.
A table of the spreadsheet I made up (direct from the official Govt budget data) is downloadable at end of that article.
Thanks greatly to all in advance.
March 19th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote, maybe I just wanted to say my piece and made some assumptions there.
In terms of your article on the revised GDP. From my understanding it was the national accounts that were revised, the official GDP is taken directly from the ABS. If the national accounts were revised upwards because of a change in the ABS measurement of GDP, doesn’t that suggest that the government thinks that ABS is now understating the GDP. Maybe I am just confused?
March 19th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
@barnaby is right…
You know what, I just checked out Barnabyisright.com and you know what, he actually is haha… I never realised how switched on he was….
Thanks for the eye opener…
March 19th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
ak @ #77,
I agree. Glad you pointed out that the wider definition of “default” includes inflating away your debts. When I personally mention a view about “sovereign default”, I’m always including that wider definition, which I see as more likely.
BTW, in further demonstration of my ignorance… what is “MMT”?
March 19th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
hello all
Also remember that the ABS understates unemployment figures to the extent that while we are only slightly better than the US in real terms. The official figures suggest that Australia has half the unemployed as that of the US while parity would be far more accurate. We are better in book fudging terms only, perhaps we are better at lying and then believing our own lies. Unemployment in Australia is now at average great depression levels in real terms.
Barnaby was talking about FOREIGN debt before he was silenced, the government is now taking over this debt by issuing bonds (see Barnaby’s graph), thus shielding the banks and banksters. How far will they go to keep the current ship afloat? At the current rate they will need to be borrowing about 1 trillion dollars in about five years if they can find lenders silly enough. As an alternative the FIRB will need to let the Chinese Communist government nationalise all of our mining companies and housing (and both Libs and Labor will bear responsibility).
March 19th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
oh this stuff from your neighbour
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog
BTW I have fired a few rounds there last night but my magazine is still more than half full.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=8788&cpage=1
March 19th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I looked it up and the revision was sold as bringing the measurement system closer to international standards. So we either overstating now, or were understating in the past. Regardless if you believe what they say it means that the figure is now more comparable internationally.
It makes me realise that given the uncertainty in the actual measurement method and accuracy, the zero point is a bit arbitrary. So where is the truth? Maybe ultimately company profits are the most reliable source of information.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
TITINT,
All good mate
AFAIK, you are correct that GDP is derived from ABS data (not that this exonerates the Govt – it is a govt dept after all).
However, it seems very clear to me that the “revisions” to GDP now present an artificially inflated view of real GDP. Result being, whatever you’re spending (borrowing) now, is automatically rendered a lower percentage of an artificially inflated GDP number.
I think it particularly important to consider the TIMING of those ‘methodology’ changes too.
First, “substantial increase” revisions to GDP in 2008-09 – (ie) at height of the GFC.
Second, change to using CPI deflator from previous non-farm GDP deflator for inflation-adjustment calculation of ‘real spending growth’ (as a percentage of that revised GDP), done not in the major annual May Budget, but in the Nov 2009 Mid-Year Economic & Fiscal Outlook update – (ie) when peak value of “stimulus” spending/borrowing was in calculable view… and looked horrendous for political purposes?
It all reeks of creative accounting.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Another thought TITINT.
Your point about the change to GDP calc being “sold” as international standardisation is right, of course. Any excuse will do.
However, I would question why such a change should yield results that all favour the political presentation of the govt of the day.
I’d also question why such a change should result in non-uniform “adjustments” to different years. In poring over the govt’s numbers, there are lots of other, “little” inconsistencies, and no obvious rhyme nor reason for them.
When I see empirical evidence that the Govt (esp. Tanner) are demonstrably lying about things like Whitlam having “no debt”, or the “GFC punched a huge hole in our projected revenues”, I see no reason to believe that these “revisions” and “adjustments” in the interests of “more accurate reporting” – every single one serving to conveniently minimise the current Govt’s level of spending/borrowing – are on the level.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
BIR – totally agree the timing is extremely suspicious
March 19th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Steve,
I had a conversation recently with a young eco science honours student who had just attended her FIRST economics lecture. Her observations as follows:
1. “What is this crap?”
2. On equilibrium – “In science if we have a model that doesn’t “model” a system we toss it. It’s not a model at all. Anyway, how can equilibrium be a ‘natural’ state?”
3. On models – “How can you claim that your “model” works if you ignore everything that contradicts it? That’s not science. It’s crap.”
4. On externalities – “How can anything that forms part of a system be treated as an externality in a model of that system?”
5. Summation: Refer to Point 1 above.
In fairness to the lecturer it was an intro to the current economic orthodoxy. I pointed the undergrad to your work as “anti-crap”.
Cheers
March 19th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
In 1990′s it was the political obsession with the so called evils of public debt that led to the explosion in the cost of housing.
In an effort to cut spending to appease the angry massess all three levels of government effectively withdrew support for new housing infrastructure.
The adoption of the so called “user pays” model effectively passed infrastructure costs onto the developer who then levied the costs onto the new home buyer.
The local and federal governments took it one step further by taxing new housing with the GST and council building charges.
If government policy had’nt increased the cost of a new home by 30% people might have actually kept buying them.
To inflate new supply with the “user pays” surcharge and new taxation is to , in effect and over time , inflate the whole inventory.
Whilst the cost of a new home on the city outskirts remains above $350k people will be happy to pay a premium for inner city homes and continue to bid up the price.
We ended up with higher home prices because we voted for them.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Welcome aboard Nicholas,
You’re absolutely right about the leverage issue. That’s the main thing I’m trying to find an effective limit to–and I believe that the “limit loans to ten times the annual rental of the property” would do that.
I can see another T-shirt (but NO I am not going to design it!) with a supply and demand diagram (the stuff I normally hate) and an arrow moving the demand curve out a little bit marked “Immigration?”, with an arrow moving it down vertically a lot labelled “LEVERAGE!”
March 19th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Thanks angophera; and good on her! Did you direct her to http://www.debunkingeconomics.com or the lectures tab here?
March 19th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
I think that loan limits are an unfortunately crude method of averting asset speculation. They would be intrinsically arbitrary and therefore subject to the political process. Given that it wouldn’t add to the tax base, it would be very likely that a government in the not-to-distant future would “deregulate” the limit out of existence.
The land tax proponents are onto a far better option. A raw land value tax (based on the achievable rent for the site in its best use) would completely stop land speculation if it was levied at a rate above the expected capital growth rate. Land would be bought and sold based on what could be done with it at the time rather than how much its price would grow in the future. By basing the tax on rent rather than sale price, speculative bubbles would be further discouraged by removing the government incentive to raise tax revenues by pumping up the prices.
March 20th, 2010 at 12:35 am
@ak
“What’s going on?”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7442926/Is-Chinas-Politburo-spoiling-for-a-showdown-with-America.html
“Does this explain the reversal in the rhetoric?”
http://www.smh.com.au/business/chinese-dont-blame-it-on-rio-20100314-q64n.html
Does this answer your question ak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nyR8pZaEg
What do you think the Chinese are thinking about the Western elite bankers?
March 20th, 2010 at 1:40 am
A one-eyed medical doctor with Aspergers, who “saw it coming”
Betting on the Blind Side