I am giving a talk on the blog today at Swinburne University in Melbourne, and frankly I am not all that prepared on the main issue of interest to the organisers there, which is the educational impact of this blog (and blogging in general) versus other forms of education.
I just established this blog to get the Debtwatch report out initially, and it’s grown in both size and personality in ways that I never envisaged. It’s been very gratifying, but I haven’t really had the time to reflect on they whys and hows of the process of blogging.
I would really appreciate having members provide comments on this specific issue, which I will be able to bring up in real time during the talk today.
Specific questions include:
1. How have you found this blog (and blogs in general) as an educational medium?
2. Your reflections on the blog as a community: how engaged are you in this, especially in comparison to your (if necessary!) memories of your engagement in your formal education?
Finally, thoughts in general are most welcome on the blog itself.
Cheers, Steve
PS I won’t be able to respond to any messages for at least 30 hours.
Steve, I have some excess time on my hands with the GFC. I found your site, bought the book and read it. Followed the blog and bought Hyman Minsky’s book on Keynes and read it. Read Irving Fischer’s Debt Deflation article available from the Fed. I am now so depressed that I ignore all the news broadcasts. I am now hunkered down with with Per Baks “the way nature works” and picked up some books by Karl Popper. I think the blog is super educational, but I lack the intestinal fortitude to follow the Debt/GDP saga anymore. Thanks for the fine work. I’m going to go mix a martini. Regards, B
I have relied on blogs to understand the financial crisis and teach myself economics because they are topical and usually written for a general audience. Relying on the internet means wading through a lot of crank ideas, but that’s fine if you approach everything with a critical eye-once you can find the flaws in the debt virus hypothesis, the gold standard, and chartalism, you’ve learned a fair bit about the monetary system. During this process it’s essential to find at least one source you trust is thinking critically, testing his assumptions, and showing his work. The great strength of this blog as an educational tool is its mix of pithy commentary and more academic treatment of models and data, which invites the neophyte to keep coming back and dig a little deeper.
Steve,
Question 1.
In my experience (and I’ve been surfing the Net for quite a while), I’ve found some very informative resources on the Net in general. As I tend to be quite critical and sceptic, when I endorse a particular resource I am fully confident that it’s well above the average.
With this in mind, I can say Debtwatch is among the very best. Steve’s comments are always clear, informative and up to the point; his reasoning is always coherent and compelling; he’s also made freely available a copious wealth of top-notch lectures and papers.
In particular, I’ve found Steve’s papers on Labour Theory of Value and his lectures on history of economic thought extremely valuable.
Besides, it’s not every day that one can interact with a scholar of Steve’s calibre, who also happens to be a down-to-earth bloke. And this is something that can hardly be overlooked. I invite anyone here to try and interact with some of the economic (and academic in general) holly cows that populate the blogosphere.
From my personal perspective, this blog has inspired me to try and continue my education.
As I can imagine all the work and effort that go into keeping this blog running (for which we all need to thank Steve) I would like to contribute in some way. Unfortunately, due to my personal circumstances, I am unable to help Steve with funding or with technical matters (and he most certainly deserves it), as I’ve seen other members have. For this, I apologize sincerely.
But if there is anything I can do, just let me know. Or what about a list of things to do that you can safely delegate? Nothing sensitive, say proof-reading, or formatting stuff, or whatever of the same nature?
Question 2.
My experience with the blog is similar to others I have seen. I don’t post as often as many, but I do read what others have posted, and the discussions are frequently pertinent and always civilized.
To be honest, I don’t always agree with the positions taken, but they usually make me look for further information. In the process, I often learn a thing or two.
So, in general, I believe the community formed around the blog maintains a high level.
However, here I would like to mention to another blog member who has been specially helpful and welcoming: Phil. Thanks mate.
Steve, Googled your website after watching you on the 7:30 Report about 18 months ago. When you spoke you made sense about private debt, deleveraging and that property prices will return to a level of which the weekly pay packet can afford.
I was sick and tired of hearing the rubbish spoken by all the mainstream economists. Some of their comments make me so angry I feel like throwing a brick at the TV screen every time they talk.
Blog sites managed by professionals such as yourself provide informative, non-bias and quality information.
Steve,
Thank you. You have taught me an awful lot in the past 12-18 months. You have really raised the level of intelligence and understanding out there. You speak reasonable sense, without any vested interests. For some reason this critical point has gone unnoticed.
Thanks to you I have not only increased my interest in all things related but I now have the ability to spread your ideas and thoughts (in very simplified form) to others, while they are often unable to think further than quoting bubble slogans.
I tend to cop a bit of flak for it at times, but the ability to provide an alternative to the somewhat dangerous group-think on the credit bubble is beneficial. If I can get just a few people think rationally – instead of simply following -before they ‘marry their bank’ then job done. We may even get some form of consensus for change when things really deflate.
As a natural contrarian, homes4aussies summed up my position and feelings perfectly. The amount of time I spend on this now is quite astounding, knowing there are others out there really helps. I already work in the (parasitic) FIRE sector, but now I have a genuine interest that I want to pursue further.
Thanks again.
- Matt
Steve
1. Your blog is a success because your ideas are outstanding. Ever since Gutenberg first made information widely available, media has always been about content. For that you get 10/10.
2. I like this blog over all others because despite different views, everyone is civil to each other. Steve, you can take great credit for this in the way you manage the site. I also think your ideas attract a certain type of person to this blog. A person who has genuine interest in learning, rather than people who just want to rant.
Not sure if that helps – just my thoughts.
1. This is just about the only blog I’ve found to be educational, in the true sense, though a couple of others would fit the bill. But 99% of blogs are just drivel and a waste of time.
2. They tried to teach me Economics at Uni but I couldn’t understand it as it just didn’t add up. Back then I thought it was that I was just stupid or something, I dropped it. But when I found (20yrs later) debtdeflation and then read Steve’s book Economics I found I did understand economics afterall!!! (Well most of it anyhow, I need to reread a couple of chapters in Debunking Eco’).
It’s good to know there are others who think like me out there, people who look further than a few years to understand what’s happening and who understand peoples nature hasn’t changed a bit in thousands of years. Most people just cannot accept their views/beliefs etc. are wrong & are unable to change.
I actually wish there were more people on this blog who did NOT believe and we could have more debating/arguing.
Thanks for the education.
P.S. I’d say I’m more engaged here in a way since it’s not “Work” it’s enjoyable I’m doing it because I want to every time!!
1. How have you found this blog (and blogs in general) as an educational medium?
I have learned more from blogs than I ever did at school.
You can read about certain subjects on blogs, follow a link and find you learn something new far removed from the subject of the original blog.
You also learn to cross reference and seek clarification on what is presented in blogs as there are many that have an agenda, so you do have to learn to filter the information.Of course the internet has made this possible as it it easier and quicker to do this than walk into a library, you are more inclined to read blogs etc when you have spare time than you are to go to a reference library or to a college, well it is for me anyway.
2. Your reflections on the blog as a community: how engaged are you in this, especially in comparison to your (if necessary!) memories of your engagement in your formal education?
The community of the blog helps to focus on some of the information that you may not have interpreted correctly, it also helps you to filter the information.In school if you didnt understand something, you were wary of raising your hand, so as not to appear stupid, the fact that the rest were in the same position didnt enter your mind. On a blog you can ask anything without fear of asking the dumb question, because really there are no dumb questions and on the whole there are plenty of people willing to with various subjects.
Finally, thoughts in general are most welcome on the blog itself.
I found this blog by visiting another blog. You were mentioned so I searched and found here. You have made the subject of economics, easy, interesting, and most of all you appear trustworthy. It is easy to get bogged down in the acronyms, and any of us can waffle and confuse people with our own area of expertise, but if we keep things simple most folk can understand, you have that ability with your blogs and the various articles, and films you have posted
mfo @29
Funny you say that because that is exactly what I did, I remember the segment on 730 report, and I have logged on an average of 5-6 days a week since. I only occasionally contribute.
I guess an economics blog attracts a certain type of person. You really notice this by the quality of the writing by Steve and bloggers, the wide and well considered views expressed and the rigourous but respectful nature of the debate.
I think I am less bearish than most of the members of this site, however it is important to consider different points of view and I appreciate the food for thought provided on this blog.
Can make being a high school Economics teacher difficult though, knowing that a lot of the Economic Models that you are obligated to teach bear little similarity to what actually happens in the world.
1. Many blogs are actually misleading and misrepresent speculation and opinion as fact, like any other ‘news media’ might do. I don’t think this blog does that at all but when using blogs to learn about any given subject, especially something like finance, one must take everything you read on them with a pinch of salt. Hence my username.
A critical aspect of any blog which claims to offer expert opinion is that the writers of the blog address criticism or sceptical questioning of their views personally, sensibly, and directly. I have stopped reading blogs which can’t offer this, Mike Shedlocks blog being one such example.
2.Initially IMO one tends to read and assess the blog quality as described above. When one is confident what the position of the blog is, and that there is evidence that the blog writer will address questions, then particpation can begin.
As participation continues, one gets used to commenting and one can happily have side conversations with other readers which may not involve the blog writers and which may also be off topic. At this point the blog is a community.
Blogs such as this one in which the writer tends to retain an open mind about things tend to attract a diverse crowd of informed opinion. Blogs which OTOH present a specific political slant or for example fixed economic views tend to attract a non diverse audience. I would hold up both Mike Shedlocks libertarian oriented blog, and Bill Mitchells MMT blog as two such examples. Debtwatch is a much more diverse group and hence to me, more worthy of my time,
The blog’s been extremely helpful in getting accurate alternate points of view that the MSM and traditional economists refuse to talk about.
That being said, a suggestion. We all know there’s a wide range of opinion online (from the accurate to the right wing end-of-the-world-buy-gold-now rubbish). I’d say since you have a good momentum going here, don’t damage your credibility by hooking up with the wrong sources.
There are some alternate MSM sources that are extremely careful to avoid things like 9/11. Why? Because:
(a) they’re a business. Just like the MSM outlets.
(b) they’re competing for an audience.
(c) the last thing they need is to be labeled as “The 9/11 Network”.
Steve goes against the crowd here in a well-researched way. Continue and try to expand your podcast section if you can. Especially for those who don’t have time to read lots of posts during the day.
I’d say that you’re flirting with the future of education with this blog.
Specifically, I’ve difficulty imagining my children taking on $200k of debt in order to go to university, getting mediocre education in the process, and ending with barely improved carrier prospects. (Yes, I’ve an extremely low opinion of university indeed.) On the contrary, I suspect they’ll take it up to the point where they’ve learned to learn, and set out to work — while learning new things on a per need basis.
In this sense, I imagine many scholars progressively turning into some kind of rock stars. Their revenue (from books, conferences, pay walls) would depend on their fan base and on sponsorships, rather than on a fixed salary. Tools such as this blog would become crucial to converse, expand, probe and exchange ideas.
In many ways, this would look like a return to the intellectual spirit of the end of the 19th century. The driver of this change is but economic. For most students, the return on investment, of going in debt in order to get higher education, is simply too small.
As a retired accountant who has always enjoyed economics, I was glad to have found this site many months ago. Over the last fifteen years I found myself drawn to Austrian/libertarian economics. however they don’t want to look under the bonnet and get down to nitty gritty e.g the effect of new financial instruments and role of central banking on credit and debt formation.
So basically what I like is the informed comment by the likes of Ak and others.
It’s actually a master class with Steve as the conductor.
Steve, your blog has not only confirmed what I thought I already knew, but added to it. I write on a lot of venues, so I haven’t corresponded with many of these guys. I try to direct people to your site and that of Michael Hudson, whom I found out about here. I am trying to read all I can find of Hudsons, as it is clear he could see this from 10 miles away. There is a story in Genesis, the story of Joseph getting out of jail for interpreting Pharoah’s dream. The dream was the small corn consuming the big corn. That section of Genesis is about debt peonage, but it isn’t reported as such. The small ears are the interest due. The big the principal. Few understand the interest for repayment of debt is never loaned once we reach bubble stage. I have fronted gold bugs for years about this deflation game. You have confirmed that I wasn’t by myself in understanding this game. My education is finance, but they never taught anything about debt in the game of finance or economics. Though the supply/demand graphs gave me an idea about prices of commodities over time, the only thing I can recall that was even close to accurate was that banks created money. The idea that people put money into banks and they lend it out is far from how banks operate. Deposits are actually to pay other banks for excessive lending and have little to do with actual lending. This of course wouldn’t be true of a savings bank or other financial enterprise. I hope to add more here later.
This blog is the most educational web site on the subject of economics I have encountered thus far.
thanks so much for putting in the time to keep it updated!
Thanks everyone–I’m both very pleased and somewhat humbled by the feedback.
I had no idea how this blog would develop when I began it; the original idea was just to use blogging as another means to get the Debtwatch Report out.
It’s morphed into far more than that courtesy of the community it has created. I learn a lot from the comments–posters like JKH can expect emails from me as I expand the detail in the modelling of financial flows, AK and others are making it easier to develop models, David & others are helping improve the database behind my graphs, the general debate is informative in the extreme, I enjoy the banter between BTB and others about stocks,… And you all keep my spirits up because, cheerful by nature though I am, it does get a tad hard to cop some of the flak I get from time to time as well.
The talks at Swinburne went very well, and sometime soon I’ll post the videos. For now I have to turn to getting the site for the Kosciousko walk developed. On that front, I would be truly delighted to have companions from the blog on some of the days of that walk, which will start on April 15 this year.
Dear Mr Keen
People can argue with words all day about economics and achieve nothing. Your approach of using a different language (mathematics) to demonstrate clearly the truth is without question the best.
You have also allowed me to see as in “mind blowing wow see” the injustice and fraud of the current economic system (ad just how much the media and politicians deceive us every single day).
To me that is a real gift. I know have an explanation to things that have evaded me for some 30 years.
Thanks
Steve, you’ve helped balance the incessant buffoonery in the media, the real estate industry, govt, and RBA, that talks up property growth.
We need the macroeconomic data dumbed down and made palatable to more Aussies. Using smart time series charts and modelling govt policies in accepted economic models will do a lot for this.
Until we get a better educated electorate, we will keep repeating the same short sighted ill informed decisions over and over.
You have gone some way towards addressing the issues of debt, net foreign debt to gdp, money supply, credit money supply.
However, I think you’d reach a wider audience, and have more persuasive power in the general media, if you limited your explanations to 1000 words, used clearer charts, and imagine you are explaining things to a Year 12 audience. I think a lot of what you say is not understood by journos or the electorate…..
Hi Steve,
I would have to say that this blog has contributed very heavily in my “self” education about economics, moreso than any other of the several I visit. I find that for the Australian perspective there is none better. All here who read and contribute have I’m sure benefitted in some or many ways from your generosity Steve. So, many thanks indeed for that.
What I take away from this blog and it’s many eclectic contributors is the clarity it brings to murky economic noise and the confirmations I receive over and again that my layman interpretations of information and data are parralleled by the more learned in economics. First and foremeost, that keeps me financially safe.
Thanks Steve and thanks All.
GSM.
Steve,
Very nice to meet you on the plane back from Melbourne last night. I’m guessing that after your long day you didn’t really need that extra hour in the air…
If you ever need any help turning your models into a Bayesian format then I’d be delighted to help.
Looking forward to your commentary as this year unfolds. It’s shaping up as an entertaining year.
Kind regards, Jamie
Thanks Steve for coming to talk to us at Swinburne, and to everyone for their comments to help Steve.
There was good feedback on the talks. One thing that struck me though was the enormous amount of Steve’s time this blog takes (on top of his other tasks) which may become even more difficult to manage if this crisis gets more attention and leads to more participation here. I am not sure if any of the very bright people here could suggest some strategies whereby Steve might be able to make running this blog more sustainable in relation to his time and commitments?
Ah! Nice to put a face to the name Jamie. Yes I’d appreciate that work at some stage, though right now I couldn’t give it the attention it deserves.
I think it may be a good idea to hold a seminar later in the year with everyone here who can contribute technically to the work. There’s a very gratifying level of collaboration developing here, and it would be great to both introduce people to each other and help in the coordination of tasks.
First I would like to thank you Steve for your regular commitments in these destabilizing economic times.
I personally have grown understand a great deal more about the role of debt in causing the GFC through following your bloggings. I find the information to be current in comparison to books that have a timely process of publication and unbiased, unlike all the BS in the media. Also the commenting aspect of a blog enables for interactive discussions which assists everyone in their continual growth and learning.
@ Steve (#42)
“And you all keep my spirits up because, cheerful by nature though I am, it does get a tad hard to cop some of the flak I get from time to time as well”.
This may be little comfort, but you are in pretty good company there: Socrates was forced to drink hemlock; Mendel was utterly ignored; Galileo was threatened.
Darwin still gets flak!
And note I don’t mention the two old German blokes that must remain unnamed.
What you’ve got to do is to show you deserve to be in their company.
Just let the bozos have their time. What goes around, comes around.