I first realised that the world faced a serious financial crisis in the very near future in December 2005, as I prepared an Expert Witness Report for the NSW Legal Aid Commission on the subject of predatory lending.
My brief was to talk about the impact of such contracts on third parties, since one ground to overturn a loan contract was that it had deleterious impacts on people who were not signatories to the contract itself. I was approached because the solicitor in the case had heard of my academic work on Hyman Minsky’s “Financial Instability Hypothesis”.
Minsky’s hypothesis argued that a capitalist economy with sophisticated financial institutions could fall into a Depression as an excessive buildup of private debt occurred over a number of financially-driven business cycles. I had built a mathematical model of Minsky’s hypothesis in my PhD, which generated outcomes like the one shown below: a series of booms and busts lead to debt levels ratcheting up over time, until at one point the debt-servicing costs overwhelmed the economy, leading to a Depression.

Figure 1
When I began writing my Report, I started with the comment that “debt to GDP levels have been rising exponentially”. But since I was an Expert Witness in this case rather than the Barrister, I knew that I couldn’t rely on hyperbole–and if the trend of growth wasn’t exponential, then I couldn’t call it that. I expected that there would be a rising trend, but that it wouldn’t be quite exponential, so I would need to amend my initial statement.
I downloaded the data on Australian private debt and nominal GDP levels from the RBA Statistical Bulletin, plotted one against the other, and my jaw hit the floor: the trend was clearly exponential. The correlation coefficient of the data since mid 1964 with a simple exponential function was a staggering 0.9903. The only thing that stopped the correlation from being absolutely perfect were two super-bubbles (on top of the overall exponential trend) in 1972-76 and 1985-94.

Figure 2
I expected that the situation in America would be as bad or worse, which was confirmed by a quick consultation of the Federal Reserve’s Flow of Funds data. Though not as obviously exponential as in Australia’s case, the correlation with simple compound growth was still 98.8%.

Figure 3
So debt had been growing faster than GDP–4.2% per annum faster in Australia’s case for over 40 years, and 2.7% faster for longer in the USA’s. An unsustainable trend in debt had been going on for almost half a century.
Staring at those graphs (at roughly 3am in Perth, Western Australia), I realised that these debt bubbles had to burst (and probably very soon), that a global financial crisis would erupt when they did, that someone had to raise the alarm, and that given my knowledge, that someone was me. As soon as my Expert Witness Report was finished, I started making comments in the media about the likelihood of a recession.
Less than 2 years later, the Global Financial Crisis erupted, and economists who didn’t see it coming, and who for decades had argued that government spending could only cause inflation, suddenly called for–and got–the biggest government stimulus packages in world history to prevent an economic Armageddon.
To some degree, the government stimulus packages worked.
I am happy to admit that the scale of the government countermeasures surprised me. As Australia’s Prime Minister Kevin Rudd pointed out, the collective stimulus over the 3 years from September 2007 till September 2010 was expected to be equivalent to 18 percent of global GDP. That was huge–bigger in real terms than the US’s military expenditure during World War II.
That huge government stimulus has attenuated the severity of the crisis, and led to positive growth figures in many countries–most notably Australia, which recorded only one quarter of falling GDP versus a norm of 4 consecutive quarters for most of the OECD. But it still has not addressed the cause of the crisis–the excessive level of private debt, and the transition from a period of decades in which rising debt fuelled aggregate demand, to one in which the private sector’s attempts to reduce debt will subtract from aggregate demand.
For that reason, I do not share the belief that the GFC is behind us: while the level of private debt remains as gargantuan as it is today, the global economy remains financially fragile, and a return to “growth as usual” is highly unlikely, since that growth will no longer be propelled by rising levels of private debt.
Private debt has, as in past downturns, started to fall compared to GDP–though in Australia’s case the so-called “First Home Owners Boost (which doubled the amount of money the government gave to first home buyers from A$7,000 to A$14,000) enticed so many new entrants into mortgage debt that Australia’s ratio started to rise again in mid 2009.
America’s ratio, on the other hand, continued to rise through the start of the GFC, but is now clearly falling.

Figure 4
Having driven demand higher every year since the 1990s recession by rising and rising faster than nominal GDP, private debt is now falling and reducing aggregate demand. This is deleveraging at work, and it is the force that governments are trying to resist by boosting their own spending as private spending stagnates.

Figure 5
Australia’s success in avoiding a recession has been partly due to the fact that its policies encouraged private debt to grow again, as first home buyers took the additional A$7,000 of government money to the banks and borrowed against it (but even there, debt reduction by business and the reduction in personal debt is counteracting the rise in mortgage debt).

Figure 6
This is one foolproof means to avoid a serious recession–go back to borrowing and spending up big. This is, after all, what ended the recession of the 1990s–and in the USA’s case, it happened without debt actually falling. Australia’s greater recession then was due to the fact that debt did actually fall between 1991 and 1993, so that deleveraging drastically reduced aggregate demand.

Figure 7
So could the global economy get out of the global financial crisis the same way it got out of the 1990s recession–by borrowing its way up? That’s where the sheer level of debt becomes an issue–and it’s why I stuck my neck out and called the GFC, because I simply didn’t believe that we could borrow our way out of trouble once more. Debt did continue rising relative to GDP for several years after I called the GFC, but it has now reached levels that are simply unprecedented in human history.
For the “borrowing our way out” trick to work once more, we would need to reach levels of debt that would make today’s records look like a picnic. What are the odds that that could happen again?

Figure 8
The debt servicing burden
The simplest measure of the impact of debt levels on the economy is to look at the ratio of interest payments to GDP. There are obviously two factors here: the level of interest rates, and the ratio of debt to GDP. A very high rate of interest–such as applied during the 1970s–can mean that even a low level of debt (relative to income) is hard to service; conversely, a low rate of interest–such as we have now–can be hard to service if debt levels are very high.
The next two charts illustrate this for Australia and the USA by recording interest rates on the vertical axis and the debt to GDP ratio on the horizontal. The smooth curves on the charts show combinations of the debt to GDP ratio and the rate of interest that require the same proportion of GDP to be devoted to debt servicing. The jagged lines show the actual progress of the debt servicing burden over time in both countries–starting from 1959 in Australia’s case and 1971 in the USA’s (the earliest date for my data on US average interest rates). The diagrams tell an interesting story about the evolution of the Ponzi financial system we now inhabit.
Back in 1960, debt servicing in Australia required a mere 2% of GDP. This rose rapidly to a peak of 16.7% of GDP in 1990–the beginning of Australia’s most severe post-War recession–as both interest rates and the debt to GDP ratio rose.
Then the servicing costs plummeted dramatically in the aftermath to the 1990s recession, as the Reserve Bank drastically cut rates–in the belated realisation that they had set them far too high in the late 80s in an attempt to control the asset bubble of that decade–and as the debt to GDP ratio fell (as did the actual debt level) during the recession.
Then Australia bounced along an 8% debt burden contour between 1993 and 2000, as interest rates fell while debt levels–driven by rising mortgage debt–rose.
Next the burden began to rise from 2003, as mortgage and business debt both expanded and the RBA began increasing rates to attempt to control the booming economy.
Rates then reached their peak in mid-2008 when the RBA finally realised that, rather than inflation being the main danger facing the economy, we were actually in a financial crisis. At this point, the debt servicing burden on the economy was the same as it was in 1990–even though rates were half what they were then–because the private debt to GDP ratio had doubled in the meantime.
The RBA went rapidly into reverse–cutting rates at 1% a month after having previously increased them in 1/4% steps. The debt ratio started to fall, and the debt servicing burden fell back to 10.25% of GDP–from where it is now rising once more as First Home Buyers pile on more debt, and the RBA is back once again fighting the mythical dragon of consumer price inflation (though recent comments imply it is also finally targetting house price inflation too).

Figure 9
The American story is similar, but involves much larger levels of debt and a consequently higher debt servicing burden. This began at over 5% of GDP in 1971, and rose to a massive 23.4% of GDP in 1981–a different date to Australia’s, but also the time of the USA’s worst post-War recession (this is not a coincidence). Average interest rates peaked at 19.75% under Volcker in mid 1981.
The burden then fell rapidly as rates were cut significantly, only to rise once more as the 1980s stock market bubble took off, and the Volcker Fed tried to restrain the bubble once more with rising rates.
Then the 1987 crash hit, followed by the 1990s recession, and under Greenspan rates were pared back as the debt to GDP ratio actually fell for a time.
Then the DotCom bubble began, and debt began to rise once more–and the Subprime bubble commenced in the background. The Fed responded to the DotCom bust of 2000 with a rapid cut in its rate that drove average rates down from around 9% to just 4.4%, while at the same time rising mortgage and financial sector debt pushed the aggregate debt ratio past the Great Depression record of 235% of GDP.

Figure 10
The Fed, firstly under Greenspan and then Bernanke, tried to restrain the bubble with rising interest rates once more–until the Subprime Catastrophe hit and it once again went into reverse, driving its own rate down to zero and the average rate to about 3.5%. That is where the USA now wallows, with a debt burden of almost 300% and a debt servicing burden of 10% of GDP.
Both countries now have lower average interest rates than they had back in the 1960s, but a debt servicing burden that is many times higher (five times higher in Australia’s case and double in America’s) because both Central Banks obsessed about the rate of consumer price inflation, while ignoring rampant growth in private debt.
And it’s actually worse than that when one considers the longer term.
Deflation and Depressions
There are actually two ways to reduce your debt burden–by paying it down yourself, or by letting inflation do it for you. So to gauge the real impact of debt on an economy, you have to consider the after-inflation rate of interest–and when inflation is high, this can actually be negative.
Conversely, when deflation strikes, the real rate can be higher–much higher–than the nominal rate. This is why Fisher called his theory “the Debt-Deflation Theory of Great Depression”–because debt on its own was nowhere near as dangerous as deflation. Considering the real debt servicing burden emphasises how much danger we are in now. The two big Depressions of the last one and a half centuries–the 1890s and the 1930s–had substantial deflation–with prices falling at up to 15 percent per annum in the 1890s, and over 10 percent per annum for two years during the Great Depression. That meant that even a low nominal rate of interest was a huge real rate.

Figure 11

Figure 12
Conversely, periods of high inflation in the post-WWII period have meant that even high nominal rates meant low–and in some cases negative–real interest rates (it was cheaper to borrow money now and pay it back later than it was to avoid debt).
The effect of inflation drastically transforms the interest payment burden map–and it emphasises the dangers in the low inflation environment we are now in.
For Australia, the worst real burden of debt servicing occurred in the 1890s, when our debt to GDP ratio was higher than in the 1930s, and deflation drove the real rate of interest to over 20 percent. At that point, 19% of Australia’s GDP was needed to service debt–and the economy fell into a deep Depression (worse than the Great Depression) as a result.

Figure 13

Figure 14
I don’t have data on 1890s debt levels in the USA, but I doubt that it could compare the the Great Depression in that country, as the real debt repayment map below emphasises. The combination of–until then–an unprecedented level of private debt and steep deflation meant that the real debt burden on the economy consumed 50% of GDP (using Moody’a Baa rate as a proxy for the average interest rate).

Figure 15

Figure 16
All of the above points out how dangerous a situation we are in with inflation rates as low as they have been driven by globalisation and by Central Banks that have obsessed about the rate of consumer price inflation and ignored both asset price inflation and the debt levels that have driven it.
In Australia’s case, all it would take is a 6% change in the real interest rate to put us back in the same situation we were in during the 1890s–because debt today is about 65% higher than back then.
In America’s case, a much larger jump of 11.5% is required to bring it back to the 1930s situation–but that’s before we take into account the impact of deflation on the debt ratio itself, since deflation actually increases the real debt burden as well as increasing real interest rates. That effect was drastic during the Great Depression: the US’s debt ratio rose from 175% to 235% even as debt fell from $162 billion to $125 billion.

Figure 17
If a similar effect applied this time and deflation drove private debt levels to 400% of GDP, it would only take a 6% rate of deflation to put America in the same position it was in in 1932.
I hope this review establishes why the debt to GDP ratio is such an important indicator of financial fragility, and why as a consequence the GFC is far from over.
Only one question remains: why do Central Banks ignore the debt to GDP ratio?
There is nothing more dangerous than a bad theory
The simple reason is: because they are neoclassical economists. You don’t get to be a Central Banker without a degree in economics, and the school of thought that dominates economics today is known as neoclassical economics. Though a lot of what it says appears to be superficially intelligent, almost all of it is intellectual drivel, as I outlined in my book Debunking Economics (which summarised a century of profound critiques of this theory which its practitioners have studiously ignored).
Since critiques by economists and mathematicians of this theory have literally filled books, I won’t try to go into all of them here. Just three key neoclassical myths suffice to explain why they do not understand the dynamics of our credit driven society. They believe that:
(1) The nominal money supply doesn’t affect real economic output;
(2) The private sector is rational while the government sector is not; and
(3) That they can model the economy as if it is in equilibrium.
The first myth means that they ignore money and debt in their mathematical models: most neoclassical models are in “real” terms and completely omit both money and debt. So since debt doesn’t even turn up in their models, they are unaware of its influence (even though their statistical units do a very good job of recording the actual level of debt).
The second myth means that they are quite willing to obsess about government debt, but they implicitly believe that private debt has been incurred for sensible reasons so that it can’t cause any problems.
The third myth means that they ignore evidence that indicates that the economy is very far removed from equilibrium, and they misunderstand the effect of crucial variables in the disequilibrium environment in which we actually live.
I can give two instances of how this has affected attempts to get Central Bankers to realise that the debt to GDP ratio matters: Ben Bernanke’s discussion of Irving Fisher’s “Debt Deflation Theory of Great Depressions”, and a discussion I had with a Assistant Governor of Australia’s Reserve Bank on the topic.
Bernanke an expert on the Great Depression?
Ben Bernanke got his current position largely on the basis of his reputation as an expert on the Great Depression. In his Essays on the Great Depression, he explained why most economists ignored Irving Fisher’s theory of how the Depression occurred–which emphasised the importance of debt and deflation:
“The idea of debt-deflation goes back to Irving Fisher (1933). Fisher envisioned a dynamic process in which falling asset and commodity prices created pressure on nominal debtors, forcing them into distress sales of assets, which in turn led to further price declines and financial difficulties. His diagnosis led him to urge President Roosevelt to subordinate exchange-rate considerations to the need for reflation, advice that (ultimately) FDR followed. Fisher’s idea was less influential in academic circles, though, because of the counterargument that debt-deflation represented no more than a redistribution from one group (debtors) to another (creditors). Absent implausibly large differences in marginal spending propensities among the groups, it was suggested, pure redistributions should have no significant macroeconomic effects.” (Bernanke, 1995 p. 17).[1]
Though Bernanke notes that Fisher “envisioned a dynamic process”, his statement of why neoclassical economists ignored his theory is inherently couched in equilibrium terms–it sees debt-deflation as merely redistributing income from one group in society (debtors) to another (creditors). How can aggregate demand fall so much, if all that is happening is a transfer of income and wealth from one group of consumers to another?
However when one thinks in truly dynamic terms, income is not all there is to aggregate demand. In a dynamic setting, aggregate demand is not merely equal to income, but to income plus the change in debt.
During a debt-driven financial bubble–which is the obvious precursor to a debt-deflation–rising levels of debt propel aggregate demand well above what it would otherwise be, leading to a boom in both the real economy and asset markets. But this process also adds to the debt burden on the economy, especially when the debt is used to finance speculation on asset prices rather than to expand production–since this increases the debt burden without adding to productive capacity.
When debt levels rise too high, the process that Fisher described kicks in and economic actors go from willingly expanding their debt levels to actively trying to reduce them. The change in debt then becomes negative, subtracting from aggregate demand–and the boom turns into a bust.
Debt has little impact on demand when the debt to GDP ratio is low–such as in Australia in the 1960s, or the USA from the start of WWII till the early 60s. But whenever the debt to GDP ratio becomes substantial, changes in debt come to dominate economic performance, as can be seen in the next two charts.

Figure 18

Figure 19
It is this effect that eluded Bernanke and his neoclassical brethren, because of their insistence on trying to model the world as if it is always in equilibrium. The debt-driven demand process is obvious when you think dynamically, but if you try to put it into an equilibrium straightjacket–as neoclassical economists did–then you can’t understand it at all.
A “schoolboy error”?
In 2008 I spoke at a seminar in Adelaide that was also addressed by Guy Debelle, an Assistant Governor (Financial Markets) of the RBA. After my talk he commented that he couldn’t understand why I compared debt to GDP, since that was comparing a stock to a flow.
I was rather nonplussed by the question–to me, the reasons why it matters are obvious–but I attempted an answer and thought little more about the incident.
Some time later, Debelle’s ex-colleague and good friend Rory Robertson of Macquarie Bank repeated Debelle’s observations in his interest rate newsletter, parts of which were then republished on a number of business blogs, including Business Spectator. Amongst other things, Rory remarked that:
Dr Steve Keen amongst others continues to make the schoolboy error of comparing debt to income (a stock to a flow – apples to oranges) and misses the main game. (Rory Robertson)
The proposition that comparing debt to GDP is making a stock/flow error may appear wise at first glance, but it is in fact nonsense. It instead shows that the person making the comment does not understand dynamics–which is a failing shared by almost all neoclassical economists.
In dynamic terms, the ratio of debt to GDP tells you how many years it would take to reduce debt to zero if all income was devoted to debt repayment. That is an extremely valid indicator of the degree of financial stress a society (or an individual) is under.
I find that members of the general public understand this easily. Only economists seem to have any trouble comprehending it–not because it is difficult but because their own training pays almost no attention to dynamic analysis, and therefore they don’t learn–as systems engineers do–that stock/flow comparisons can be extremely important indicators of the state of a system.
Marching ignorantly forward
With such ignorance about the dynamics of debt, academic economists and Central Banks around the world are hoping that the crisis is behind them, even though the cause of it–excessive levels of private debt–has not been addressed. They are recommending winding back the government stimulus packages in the belief that the economy can now return to normal after the disturbance of the GFC.
In fact “normal” for the last half century has been an unsustainable growth in debt, which has finally reached an apogee from which it will fall. As it falls–by an unwillingness to lend by bankers and to borrow by businesses and households, by deliberate debt reductions, by default and bankruptcy–aggregate demand will be reduced well below aggregate supply. The economy will therefore falter–and only regular government stimuli will revive it.
This however will be a Zombie Capitalism: the private sector’s reductions in debt will counter the public sector’s attempts to stimulate the economy via debt-financed spending. Growth, if it occurs, will not be sufficiently high to prevent growing unemployment, and growth is likely to evaporate as soon as stimulus packages are removed.
The only sensible course is to reduce the debt levels. As Michael Hudson argues, a simple dynamic is now being played out: debts that cannot be repaid, won’t be repaid. The only thing we have to do is work out how that should occur.
Since the lending was irresponsibly extended by the financial sector to support Ponzi Schemes in shares and real estate, it is the lenders rather than the borrowers who should feel the pain–which is the exact opposite of the bailout mentality that dominates governments around the world.
Unfortunately, it will take a sustained period of failures by conventional policy before unconventional policies, like deliberate debt reduction, will gain political traction. Implementing them will require both a dramatic change of mindset and probably also a widespread changing of the political guard.
It will also require the breaking of the hegemony of neoclassical economics over economic thinking, but I doubt that the academic profession, or economists in Central Banks and Treasuries, are up to the task of changing their spots. Change in economics will have to come from the rebels, and from outsiders taking over a discipline that economists themselves have failed.
The second decade of the 21st century promises to be a dramatic one, politically and economically.
[1] Bernanke went on to develop his own interpretation of Fisher which I won’t bother with here because I don’t think it’s worth the effort.






December 1st, 2009 at 2:16 am
Steve, for my money that is your best piece since the roving cavaliers.
Those graphs showing the US and AU debt repayment burdens over time are superb.
I know you detest the idea of the savings glut theory, but looking at your graphs, it does certainly imply to me a level of saving desire that cannot be sufficiently accomodated by the economy. While savings as a stock do not determine borrowing, I would say that saving desire considered as a flow is relevant.
How else can the fact that we have been sliding down the curve on interest rates for 50 years be explained?
I think the rise in home ownership gives some explaination in that a rise in home ownership provides an outlet for savings even though they are not being ‘invested’.
However in a circuitist model, savings and borowings can be simply used as a means of passing wealth and assets inter-generationally, and I’d argue that most saving/lending is now of this form rather than its typical form in which people save to invest.
December 1st, 2009 at 2:51 am
Thanks scepticus!
I detest the savings glut as a causal hypothesis, but when you don’t save your debt rises, and when you do, your debt falls and so does your spending. So it’s a part of the picture, but a symptomatic one rather than a cause.
If savings were the causal factor, then we should have been saving tons back in the 70s when rates were high, and not seen a rise in debt as a result. Instead it’s rising debt that is the driving force and saving (or going into debt) the residual.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:03 am
This is my first post, been a lurker for awhile. This is by far the most cogent analysis of the current crisis I have ever read. My theory has been “its the debt stupid” and this post puts it all there, for every one to see. You are to be congratulated on this piece.
Maybe you should be pronounced as the leader of the “New Minsky” movement
December 1st, 2009 at 3:04 am
Say we have a steady state zero growth economy such as the one you model in your early circuit models, with a constant saving rate and investment rate, such that S=I with a constant revolving fund.
What happens if an exogenous shock causes the desired/attempted saving rate to rise, but leaving all other things equal? Does it:
1. cause I to rise in line with S (this is the loanable funds model) and interest rates to fall accordingly
2. reduce spending such that I falls thereby causing S to fall until S=I again (in this model the desire to save is frustrated). This would result in an output gap wouldn’t it?
December 1st, 2009 at 3:31 am
Thanks dreamer!
And welcome out from just lurking. Mind you, you had good company there: I’d say there are about 30-50 active bloggers, but there are now 2765 registered users.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:38 am
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December 1st, 2009 at 3:45 am
In my model it all comes down to the rate of turnover of money scepticus, and this in turn is affected by consumption propensities–which I prefer to use rather than savings propensities. If they change then the rate of turnover of money changes, altering both GDP and its distribution.
one of the many reasons I don’t like the savings glut argument is that it describes the (non-)consumer as the driving force in capitalism, when it’s really the capitalist who is, and another is that it is almost always couched in static terms. I’ve recently put my most basic Circuit model into a Vissim diagram where all the parameters are variables, so you can play with them once you install the Vissim viewer.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:54 am
Steve Sailer, sorry, Steve Keen, do you share the prognosis that in the coming decade there’s going to be a global stagflation the like of which we’ve never seen before?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:25 am
Thanks steve, I’ll have a play with the vissim model.
“n my model it all comes down to the rate of turnover of money scepticus, and this in turn is affected by consumption propensities”
so basically the velocity of money? I think this is the crucial bit of the jigsaw thats missing from analysis besides yours. Does your model treat these parameters dynamically – presumably they are not static in the real world.
The trillion dollar question is what determines these critical velocity parameters in the real world?
Can I also ask what the difference is between the non-consumer and a capitalist? Capitalists have saving rates near 100%. Also surely the ratio of capitalists to (non)consumers is relevant to deciding which is the driving force?
December 1st, 2009 at 4:44 am
Not stagflation JasonR,
Which means the combination of low to negative growth with moderate to high inflation. I expect instead deflation–low to negative growth with, for a reasonable period, both falling consumer and asset prices. This is what happened during the Great Depression. I don’t expect inflation for reasons that I outline in the Roving Cavailiers of Credit post.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:01 am
[...] Go here to see the original: Debtwatch No 41, December 2009: 4 Years of Calling the GFC | Steve … [...]
December 1st, 2009 at 5:33 am
Professor Keen,
Excellent analysis. Thanks.
What mechanism would be most appropriate or effective to remove debt?
December 1st, 2009 at 5:46 am
The least politically painful way would be to cause inflation–by for example increasing money wages–and let that devalue the debts, after we had also reformed the financial system to make it virtually impossible to profit by speculating on asset prices.
The most politically honest and, in the genuine sense, appropriate way to go about it would be to abolish debt lent to finance speculation–which for example would abolish more than half the housing debt in Australia, since we went from mortgage debt being less than 20% of GDP to over 80% in the period since 1990. That would of course require the temporary nationalisation of the banking system, since none of them would be solvent after such a policy.
In practice, I expect effective political paralysis over the issue and a drawn out, case by case reduction of debt via the traditional mechanisms of bankruptcy and the like, with some case by case debt reductions as occurred in the Great Depression.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:49 am
Yes, the velocity of money is the crucial factor, but it’s affected by more than just consumption tendencies. I treat the corporate and speculative aspects of that dynamically as variables in my more complete multi-sectoral model that I’m still developing, while leaving consumption tendencies as constants.
Point taken re non-consumer! But what I was getting at there was that conventional theory fusses about the consumption function, and treats the savings propensity as a variable (and of course argues that an increase in savings causes an increase in investment, which was one of the fallacies that Keynes attacked in the General Theory).
December 1st, 2009 at 6:04 am
Why would you not also include public debt in your charts? Are government deficits (debt growth) not also the same thing as consumer debt growth? Does government debt not also require debt service? It seems you consistently exclude the government debt, but it is a source of additional consumption, money stock, velocity, etc. as well? It seems to me that including it as an additional factor would reconcile some of the differences between Chartalists and Circuitists and would provide a more complete model of the sources of consumption, money supply, velocity, etc… It would also push us out further on your charts as well (that’s a scary thought).
December 1st, 2009 at 6:33 am
It skips to a different beat gvoor1–going in the opposite direction to private debt (most of the time–Bush’s folly in Iraq being one of the exceptions). It is a source of additional consumption; my reason for focusing just on the private is to show how much additional consumption the public sector would need to generate to replace reduced private sector demand due to deleveraging.
Adding the two together somewhat obscures that problem. The Chartalists also have a point about public debt having different debt service issues than private debt–basically a government with a compliant central bank doesn’t have to service its debt (note the reservation however!).
The more complete model is coming though–that’s one thing I’m in Trondheim to work on.
My original 1995 paper on Minsky (see the research page) did model public as well as private debt, and saw it as a balancing force for private debt. But seeing the empirical data, and the absolute blowout in private debt, influenced me to focus just on that for a while to get its dynamics right.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:35 am
A bit more on my “obscures the problem” comment. Total US debt was almost constant from the mid-50s till the mid-70s–because falling government debt masked rising private debt. A focus on aggregate debt would have missed the development of Ponzi behaviour by the private sector under that cover.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:45 am
Hi Steve,
As always, very helpful information.
Many Congresspeople here have substantial investments in the health and defense industries. Not much incentive then to change the status quo.
In Australia, do Rudd and other key politicians have the same investments?
December 1st, 2009 at 7:09 am
[...] Originally posted here: Debtwatch No 41, December 2009: 4 Years of Calling the GFC | Steve … [...]
December 1st, 2009 at 8:18 am
Thanks, Steve – makes sense. Wouldn’t the public debt financing be subject to capital flight and thus be subject to the same restrictions as private debt? We are not in a closed economic model, but a competitive economic model? I think that is where the Chartilists are wrong (i.e. their ideas do not hold for a country in a long term trade deficit)?
Not sure if you have seen it, but there is a good paper out regarding why neo-classical economists missed the boat that supports your thoughts.
See http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/15892/1/MPRA_paper_15892.pdf “No One Saw This Coming”: Understanding Financial Crisis Through Accounting Models, Bezemer, Dirk J, Groningen University, June 2009.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:48 am
Steve,
Thank you for an excellent article which answers some quite valid questions recently asked on this blog.
I am fully convinced that we are heading towards another period of “great moderation” achieved by periodic printing money immediately thrown into the debt holes (as public borrowing may not work any more) and bouts of debt deleveraging causing sharp recessions. I don’t believe that any responsible politician will ever risk addressing the underlying issues as this would be a political suicide. Until it is too late…
December 1st, 2009 at 9:17 am
steve, thanks for the feedback above. some of the jargon you used went over my head though.
can you point me in the direction of any decent reads on this subject so I can work out what you are talking about
AK: my thoughts exactly. I think the velocity of money question plays rather an important role here, since it may be that the central banks etc combined with fiscal drivers might now be better armed to target velcotiy than they are to target money supply and inflation.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:18 am
I wouldn’t be so dismissive about the savings glut hypothesis: it’s the flip side of the debt theory. Mortgage backed securities issued by the FHLB’s in the U.S had the Asians as their main buyers. Had they not had savings, it is unlikely that the problem would have swelled to the level that it has.
Furthermore, you can’t compare now to the 1970’s. Debt levels went up in the 70’s(from a very stable base) for a variety of factors independent of savings. The beginning of two income families, cultural changes in society, expansion of government spending etc.
Furthermore debt taken on in the 70’s seemed to be geared more toward acquisition of the means of production or of essentials. Debt today seems more geared toward the facilitation of consumption, which in the end is unsustainable.
This is one foolproof means to avoid a serious recession–go back to borrowing and spending up big.
For the short term only. That’s where Keynes really stuffed up. Spending on what? Borrowing to spend on consumption results in a hell of a party, but we all end up with hangovers. Spending to prop up malinvestments? That’s dumb. Rudd’s propping up of the house prices is just going to lead to more pain in the end.
The proper approach I feel is to be both a bit Austrian and a bit Keynsian in the end. You’ve got to let dumb economic decisions fall while at the same time providing a safety net.
Virtue economics.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am
“Total US debt was almost constant from the mid-50s till the mid-70s–because falling government debt masked rising public debt.”
I assume you meant ” masked rising PRIVATE debt “.
It still seems to me that the analysis must consider the dynamics of both forms , though it’s easy to see why private debt burdens , at a given — and too high — % of gdp , will cause more problems overall.
When (U.S.) gov’t debt/gdp was falling pre-1975 or so , it was subtracting from gdp growth in the same way that deleveraging consumers are today , and a rising private debt/gdp that simply offset the falling public debt/gdp would have been relatively benign. The problem arose when both types of debts grew faster than gdp. Ideally , periodic deleveraging by the private sector would have been accompanied by releveraging by the public sector , so that both types of debt/gdp remained at relatively constant , and sustainable , levels.
Another factor to consider is the impact of income distributions , and the GFC provides an ongoing opportunity to witness the effects of income inequality on rate of recovery from the crisis. My contention would be that given two countries with similar debt/gdp problems ( and all else being equal — I know , it’s hard to define that situation ), the more unequal country will recover more slowly. Debt deflation shifts what remains of falling incomes and asset values to the rentier class , who have a lower propensity to consume. In a demand-constrained economy , that’s counterproductive.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:23 am
I meant to say : ” Another factor to consider is the impact of income AND WEALTH distributions…”
December 1st, 2009 at 9:59 am
SteveZ, regarding the saving glut thingy, perhaps the emergence of millions upom millions of peolpe trying to save large sums for retirement has something to do with it?
pensions only really got going big time well after the war.;.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:06 am
Thanks again Steve. I was visiting the site less frequently, as the number of posts explaining why we were not in a bubble / trouble increased. You can find authoritative information on the UK from 2004 explaining why a shortage of supply is leading to increasing house prices. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barker_Review_of_Housing_Supply
I still find the correlation astounding between debt levels and GDP increases. We have had 50 years of good times by essentially borrowing from our children and grandchildren!
The fact that growth has been exponential means that it cannot continue forever. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY for the reason why.
Thanks again.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:42 am
Greetings Steve,
FWIW I agree that debt is the root cause of the boom bust cycle and it is not being addressed. So more pain on the way.
One issue that I think ultimately undermines the deflation case is captured in this quote from your post:
“………… aggregate demand will be reduced well below aggregate supply ….”
I cannot see why supply destruction cannot outpace demand destruction. The figures that are emerging in the food producing sector are downright scary ie. pointing to emerging shortages globally.
A couple of causes cited go to the heart of the debt induced GFC. Firstly farmers funding their operation with debt have/are being frozen out of the lending market thus restricting their ability to sow a crop etc.
Secondly distorted (manipulated?) market signals encouraging malinvestment and mispricing of commodities, inputs and so on.
How does your model account for supply destruction due to excessive debt?
December 1st, 2009 at 11:06 am
Dear Steve,
Brilliant, explicit, cogent, well supported, scary as hell.
Keep it up. We need to find the right ears to drop such a message into. The shot callers won’t listen now because they think they have solved their problem. Perhaps later when complete failure calls for a new perspective, they will be ready.
TCG
December 1st, 2009 at 11:10 am
Hi Steve,
I really enjoyed your latest post, it was extremely informative. I have recently decided to join in the debate regarding the Australian Property Bubble and have contributed my thoughts at:
http://www.scribd.com/sidfalcon
I posted my original article on your website in your last post and received quite a few hits. If your readers are anything like me, they are hungry for reading material that contradicts the mainstream media.
I appreciate your hard work over the years.
Regards
Sid
December 1st, 2009 at 11:32 am
http://www.smh.com.au/business/bumpy-ride-for-a-world-built-on-shifting-sand-20091130-k187.html
Bumpy ride for a world built on shifting sandDecember 1, 2009
Another financial crisis averted, another Australian rate rise looming.
The bull run on global sharemarkets resumed in earnest yesterday after a three-day hiatus sparked by the fear of a sovereign debt default in, of all places, the Middle East.
It was just another mad day in one of the craziest years in the world of finance; a year in which the potential horror of total collapse of the global economy has been replaced by unbridled optimism and a desperate scramble for seats aboard the express train to Mammon.
Dubai, that glittering monument to everything except good taste, until 12 months ago could well have been the final stop. There was the world’s tallest building; man-made islands in the shape of the globe in a turquoise lagoon that resembled the world; a vast indoor snow skiing field in the middle of the desert.
It epitomised the new-found petrodollar wealth of the Middle East – except of course that the Dubai emirate is virtually oil dry.
News that Dubai’s state-owned investment company, Dubai World and its property arm Nakheel, had been bailed out by the central bank of the United Arab Emirates sent waves of relief across trading desks, starting in Australia and spreading through Asia before heading into Europe.
The money at risk – $80 billion – was relatively small compared with the trillions that evaporated late last year and early this year. But the prospect of a sovereign default underscored the fragile nature of the economic recovery and the hidden strains still plaguing the international financial system.
It also highlights just how blinkered our financial markets are right now.
Sovereign debt problems have been evident in Eastern Europe for most of this year, periodically raising the spectre of another round of huge losses in Europe’s big banking houses.
Southern European nations such as Greece more recently have shown signs of difficulty while Japan also is under strain.
Then there is the US. While there are no concerns about default given America’s status as the global reserve currency, there are looming problems. The US had no choice but to load itself to the gills with public sector debt as it bailed out banks and ailing corporations and injected huge amounts into its economy, only to see its economy slide into recession with more than 1 in 10 workers unemployed. Public sector debt is now a massive 41 per cent of gross domestic product and the problem will only worsen.
But there seems to be no stopping the party on international markets. And in one sense you can understand why. With interest rates at record lows, investors have been looking at ways to make their money work harder to earn a decent return. And sharemarkets have been only too willing to oblige.
The boom on Wall Street that began in March, when President Barack Obama and the Federal Reserve chairman, Ben Bernanke, were desperately seeking green shoots, has been pushed along by encouraging earnings results from many of America’s big corporations – a development that appeared to justify the buying spree.
That run on Wall Street has spurred a similar performance around the globe. But a close look at the performance of those big American companies shows that, while profits indeed have been growing, revenue in many cases has gone backwards.
So what does that mean? On the positive side, that means they’ve become more efficient. On the negative, they’ve arrived at those higher earnings by simply cutting costs. That means sacking workers and adding to America’s chronic economic problems. And there are only so many people you can sack before you start harming your profits.
America’s sharemarkets have also benefited from the weaker greenback, which has helped boost export earnings. But that slide in the dollar appears to have reached its limit. That points to a possible slowdown in US corporate earnings early next year.
Warwick McKibbin, a Reserve Bank of Australia board member who will sit down this morning with his counterparts to consider lifting domestic interest rates yet again, yesterday raised concerns about the state of global financial markets.
Low interest rates, he argued, were creating a bubble in financial markets. The monetary stimulus needed to be unwound, he said.
The big concern, according to McKibbin, was that some emerging economies had pegged their currencies to the US dollar, which meant they had imported a US monetary policy totally unsuited to their own circumstances.
Who on earth could he be talking about? China, of course.
China has pegged the yuan to the US dollar and, given the dramatic fall in the greenback this year, its currency now is substantially undervalued.
That makes its exports cheaper and gives it a huge competitive advantage over countries like Korea and Japan. That in turn artificially skews investment decisions and distorts the global economy.
The Chinese economy is travelling at breakneck speed, way beyond that of America. That loose monetary policy it has inherited from America – courtesy of its pegged currency – is completely at odds with its performance. Hence McKibbin’s talk of a ”bubble”.
China has come under enormous pressure in recent months to let its currency rise. Obama and the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, have urged China’s leaders to let the yuan rise in recent weeks – all to no avail.
For most of this year, we have been thanking our lucky stars that China’s booming economy has pulled us out of the mire.
Not only did we avoid an official recession, we emerged from the downturn before just about everyone else. That’s why our interest rates are heading back to normal levels.
But there is precious little that is normal about the global economy and financial markets right now. Uncertainty rules.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:42 am
Anyone who drives a car in the country where service stations are not frequent understands the relationship between the stock (how much fuel in the tank) and the flow (how much petrol do I use per 100 km).
Those who can’t understand the relationship and its importance spend time waiting for help.
Thanks for another great article.
December 1st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
ABC news has broadcast that housing approvals fell in October when the consensus economist forecast expected a 2% rise…Ha… Will post online link when it’s available
December 1st, 2009 at 12:56 pm
scepticus.
I think pension savings contributed to the problem (a bit) in that Australia’s case there was a lot of money chasing a few assets, with the net result that there was a rise in prices, particularly with regard to financial “assets”. It all did resemble one giant Ponzi scheme.
The problem could of been ameliorated a bit if we had other viable industries in which to invest. I mean if Australia actually had an economic environment which was conducive to manufacturing, we may have seen less speculative investment and more productive investment. You see one of my pet theories is that the great asset price inflation of the last 30 years is pretty much correlated with the decline of manufacturing in the Anglosphere. People are forced into speculative investments as there are very few actual productive investments.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“You see one of my pet theories is that the great asset price inflation of the last 30 years is pretty much correlated with the decline of manufacturing in the Anglosphere. People are forced into speculative investments as there are very few actual productive investments.”
I agree 100%. The precondition was the globalisation and offshoring / outsourcing. Prices remained low because cheap cargo would arrive in any quantities requested. CPI targeting was miscalibrated and low interest rates without any breaks on speculative lending/borrowing contributed to the growth of the asset bubbles. Since investment in the productive economy didn’t make sense – other non-productive assets like real estate became so hot.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Home building records surprise drop
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/01/2758410.htm?section=justin
According to official ABS figures, total approvals for houses and apartments fell 0.6 per cent seasonally adjusted in October, while economists were on average forecasting a 2 per cent gain.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Hi bb and the rest.
Nice to see that people can be civil here without the spite, vengeance..belittling (cheap shots) exhibiting by Chris Joye and his followers.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Ak:
I think the CPI measure is a measure with many faults. In a “closed” system economy the CPI is probably an accurate measure of inflation but in an “open” system such as ours, imported deflation can offset local inflation.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
More fuel for the housing debate:
Are Aussie House Prices in a Bubble?
http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/aussie-house-prices-bubble/2009/12/01/
“Since our financial newsletter business does not depend on advertising dollars from the real estate industry or banks for survival, we feel compelled (and empowered!) to point out a simple fact: Aussie house prices are built on a bubble of borrowed money. Prices will fall when the money runs out and the national delirium over rising property values recedes.”
December 1st, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Steve,
Have you done any analysis on the cost of construction for housing?
Noting the discussion on the previous post, there seams to be no agreement or logic to this. That is, the builders claim to be no better off, the developers appear to be making little profit and yet the prices have risen drastically…
If you cannot build a replacement cheaply, maybe the price of housing is correct? It would then come down to inflation being understated for the last decade and wages requiring adjustment rather than the house prices?
I’m not sure that I buy it, someone must be making a killing in the property development industry, otherwise why would they be so keen on bribing (sorry lobbying) the NSW politicians.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:29 pm
$A selling off this afternoon. Even though the RBA raised rates again. But how can that be? Fundamentals tells me that the $A should be rallying to $1.20.
At the same time Japan has decided to launch a new round of QE. They were worried about the strength of the YEN/$US.
Will this work? Will a carry trade reversal trump this move?
At least if the $US rallies hard now, the media has a reason.
December 1st, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I was losing interest in the Dubai story.
This is how default works though. You say to the creditors. Sorry I can’t pay, I won’t pay. By the way you don’t have any rights. See you in court. Crazy!
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6938208.ece
“The Government of Dubai has refused to honour the debt obligations of its largest company, prompting fears that international creditors could be wiped out.”
December 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Westpack up by .45% thats big. So already up 1% in real terms.
Confident there wont be any real recovery without the artificial stimulus.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Steve,
Great analysis.
MechanicalEngineer,
‘Noting the discussion on the previous post, there seams to be no agreement or logic to this. That is, the builders claim to be no better off, the developers appear to be making little profit and yet the prices have risen drastically…’
Unfortunately, there is no agreed upon measure of construction costs like there is the ABS & Stapledon property price indices.
The ABS construction costs survey from 1987-88 onwards is heavily biased upwards as it only counted the costs of a small sample of new, modern houses.
I think that Stapledon provides the best analysis of construction costs, with a graph outlining the movement in costs from 1901-2006. From that graph it is clear that there is no correlation between property prices and construction costs. Unfortunately, I can’t post it here.
The same nonsense reasons were given in the US & UK prior to the property bubbles bursting: low interest rates, rising construction costs and increasing population.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:16 pm
No. They’re required to either sell them or put them in a blind trust. I don’t think the last step is effective, but the idea is they’re not supposed to know where their assets are invested.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Welcome gjvoor,
I think the Chartalists have half a point–a sovereign government with a compliant Central Bank can issue as much fiat money as it wants regardless of its budget position. But that tells us nothing about countries in the EU, for example–which are sovereign but don’t have a national Central Bank; while they acknowledge the international ramifications (currency devaluation), I don’t believe they give them sufficient weight; and I feel that their perception of how the macroeconomy would respond to this injection is somewhat superficial. I also lean towards Austrians to a certain extent here (though more Schumpeter than Hayek!): as much income as possible should be generated in production.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Hey SteveZ, you missed my sarcasm in that point: “This is one foolproof means to avoid a serious recession–go back to borrowing and spending up big.” Maybe I should have put the foolproof in inverted commas! Of course it leads to an even bigger problem down the track–that’s how we got into this gargantuan mess in the first place (by Greenspan rescuing Wall Street in 1987 rather than letting it soak).
Re the savings glut, it’s a cause and effect thing: the loans in America (issued first) created the deposits in China via a long and convoluted chain, and those in turn financed the purchase of (a percentage of) the MBSs.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Yes and Yes; I’ll fix up my earlier slip. Check my 1995 paper on the research tab for an analysis of the type you’re talking about between private and public debt–I concur with you on this point.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:42 pm
No it doesn’t yet angphera,
And that’s a valid point with respect to primary commodities. I am also working to address that by combining my production model with the CSIRO’s biophysical input-output model–so I am aware of it, but I can’t yet comment with any authority.
When I made my deflation call, I was aware that the most likely reason it would be wrong was that Peak Oil would really start to bite, driving up all prices since it is essential to all production. So it is a timing thing–and as the Great Depression showed, all it takes is 1-2 years of serious deflation to do the damage anyway. I am not expecting sustained deflation, just a fairly lengthy run of it.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Yes, that’s one of the outstanding things about the community of this blog: we show that it’s possible to differ on some issues without flame wars erupting. My thanks to everybody here for maintaining that civility.