“The Marxian view is that capitalistic economies are inherently unstable and that excessive accumulation of capital will lead to increasingly severe economic crises. Growth theory, which has proved to be empirically successful, says this is not true.
The capitalistic economy is stable, and absent some change in technology or the rules of the economic game, the economy converges to a constant growth path with the standard of living doubling every 40 years.
In the 1930s, there was an important change in the rules of the economic game. This change lowered the steady-state market hours. The Keynesians had it all wrong.
In the Great Depression, employment was not low because investment was low. Employment and investment were low because labor market institutions and industrial policies changed in a way that lowered normal employment.”
Obviously, I did not write the above. The author was instead Edward C. Prescott, who shared the 2004 Nobel Prize in Economics for the development of real business cycle theory, in his 1999 paper “Some Observations on the Great Depression” (Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, Winter 1999, vol. 23, no. 1, pp. 25– 31).
This statement is remarkable for a number of reasons I’ll discuss below. But though it is extreme, it does express a belief that is endemic in neoclassical economics, that a market economy is inherently stable and will always return to a stable growth path after a shock.
That common belief lies behind the expectations of economists that, now that the GFC has played itself out, the economy will return to trend growth and the emergency measures that attenuated its impact can be withdrawn.
From this perspective, the GFC was a “pothole in the road” caused by the Subprime crisis, a “change in the rules of the economic game” which is now behind us. With the damage caused by the crisis largely contained, normal economic growth can resume. Over time, the unemployment rate will return to pre-crisis levels as the economic car resumes its steady speed along the highway of history.
The alternative perspective is that the GFC was more akin to an abrupt change in the terrain. The “economic car” had been coasting downhill with the gravity of ever-increasing private debt adding to the speed of the car. With the GFC we reached the bottom of the hill, and the car now has to drive uphill as it attempts to maintain its previous debt-enhanced speed while also reducing debt.
Visually at least, the “change in terrain” analogy stands up better than the pothole. I normally show the debt to GDP ratio as a rising function, but the economy’s speed gets a boost as the increase in debt makes a positive contribution to aggregate demand, and is slowed down when deleveraging reduces demand. So turning the ratio upside down may give a better idea of the depth of the “Valley of Debt” into which we have fallen:

When Australia began its most recent descent into debt in mid-1964, the average annual increase of 4.2% in the ratio added only a trivial amount to aggregate demand—since at the time debt was a mere 25% of GDP. But at the end of the debt bubble in 2008, when debt had become 165% of GDP, that same rate of debt growth added a huge amount to demand—the economic “car” gained speed as the slope of the debt mountain increased.
We hit the bottom of that mountain in March 2008, and now we’re starting to climb out of the valley—though not yet in absolute terms, since thanks to the First Home Vendors Boost, mortgage debt is still growing as business busily delevers (see comments on the data, below). But once deleveraging takes hold, the acceleration caused by racing down Debt Mountain will be replaced by an economic car straining up the Mount Debt Reduction. This change in the terrain will constrain private economic performance until debt has fallen significantly, as it did after the 1890s and the 1930s.
A similar, if more extreme, picture applies in the USA, where private debt is now 300% of GDP. In contrast to Australia, the USA’s debt ratio began to rise as soon as WWII ended: on average, US private debt rose 2.9% faster than GDP every year until 2008, taking the debt ratio from 45% at the end of the War to 300% now. Deleveraging from this level of debt must exert a substantial break on economic performance, by diverting income from expenditure to debt reduction.
I am therefore one of a minority of economic commentators who regard “deflation and deleveraging” as the main dangers facing the global economy in the near future (curiously, this minority might include Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd). From my perspective, the Global Financial Crisis marks “a change in the terrain”: for decades, rising debt has turbocharged economic performance; now falling debt will be a drag on economic activity.
The vast majority of economists who perceive the GFC as a pothole on the road that is now behind us do not consider debt and deleveraging in their analysis. Their models have neither credit nor money nor private debt in them, so from their point of view, there is no terrain at all beneath the car—merely a long flat highway of history along which the economic car drives at the speed it is underlying “real” economic performance.
This failure to even consider the role of private credit in a capitalist economy is an endemic weakness in conventional “neoclassical” economics, which ignores the dynamics of credit for a variety of reasons that are both ideological and illogical.
The ideology is apparent in Prescott’s comments on the Great Depression, quoted above. The lack of logic is evident when you compare a key statement in that paper—that “Growth theory, which has proved to be empirically successful, says this is not true”—with the results of some very careful empirical research by the very same author just ten years earlier. There he (and co-author and Nobel Prize recipient Finn Kydland) concluded that the empirical data contradicted neoclassical growth theory:
“The purpose of this article is to present the business cycle facts in light of established neoclassical growth theory, which we use as the organizing framework for our presentation of business cycle facts. We emphasize that the statistics reported here are not measures of anything; rather, they are statistics that display interesting patterns, given the established neoclassical growth theory.
In discussions of business cycle models, a natural question is, Do the corresponding statistics for the model economy display these patterns? We find these features interesting because the patterns they seem to display are inconsistent with the theory.” (Finn E. Kydland & Edward C. Prescott, “Business Cycles: Real Facts and a Monetary Myth”, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, vol. 14, no. 2, pp 3-18, p. 4).
One key pattern in actual economic data that went against the predictions of neoclassical economic theory was the relationship between broad measures of the money supply and government-created “Base Money”. The standard “money multiplier” view is that:
- The government creates “Base Money” via deficit spending, and credits that money to private individuals via social security, goods purchases etc.;
- These private individuals then deposit that money in bank accounts;
- The banks then retain a proportion of these deposits and lend out the rest, creating credit money (and debt).
If this view were empirically correct, then an analysis of money over time would show that “Base Money” was created first and “Credit Money” was created later, with a time lag.
In fact, what Kydland and Prescott found was that the empirical data was the opposite of this: credit money was created first, and Base Money was created later, with a lag of up to a year:
“There is no evidence that either the monetary base or M1 leads the cycle, although some economists still believe this monetary myth. Both the monetary base and M 1 series are generally procyclical and, if anything, the monetary base lags the cycle slightly.
The difference in the behavior of M1 and M2 suggests that the difference of these aggregates (M2 minus M1) should be considered. … The difference of M2-M1 leads the cycle by even more than M2, with the lead being about three quarters.
The fact that the transaction component of real cash balances (M 1) moves contemporaneously with the cycle while the much larger nontransaction component (M2) leads the cycle suggests that credit arrangements could play a significant role in future business cycle theory. Introducing money and credit into growth theory in a way that accounts for the cyclical behavior of monetary as well as real aggregates is an important open problem in economics.”
I couldn’t agree more, but this is not what neoclassical economists did. Instead they continued to develop models in which money and debt played no role.
Despite his excellent empirical work on monetary dynamics in “Real Facts and a Monetary Myth”, Prescott’s “Great Depression” paper made no reference to credit at all as an explanatory factor in the Great Depression. Instead—I’m not joking—he blamed the Depression on a “change in labor market institutions and industrial policies that lowered steady-state, or normal, market hours”.
Except for this bizarre argument that the Great Depression was the result of the voluntary response of workers to unspecified changes in labour market conditions that made labour less desirable, this lengthy quote from Prescott is representative of standard neoclassical thinking about crises like the GFC:
“Essentially, business cycles are responses to persistent changes, or shocks, that shift the constant growth path of the economy up or down. This constant growth path is the path to which the economy would converge if there were no subsequent shocks. If a shock shifts the constant growth path down, the economy responds as follows. Market hours fall, reducing output; a bigger share of output is allocated to consumption and a smaller share to investment; and more time is allocated to leisure. Over time, market hours return to normal, as do investment and consumption shares of output, as the economy converges to its new lower constant growth path. The level of the new path is lower, not the growth rate along the path.
I’ve just described the response of the economy to a single shock. In fact, the economy is continually hit by shocks, and what economists observe in business cycles is the effects of past and current shocks. A bust occurs if a number of negative shocks are bunched in time. A boom occurs if a number of positive shocks are bunched in time. Business cycles are, in the language of Slutzky (1937), the “sum of random causes.”
The fundamental difference between the Great Depression and business cycles is that market hours did not return to normal during the Great Depression. Rather, market hours fell and stayed low. In the 1930s, labor market institutions and industrial policy actions changed normal market hours. I think these institutions and actions are what caused the Great Depression.”
So the Great Depression was a conscious choice by American workers to enjoy more leisure, in response to unspecified changes in the labour market ([Later in the same essay, he states: “Exactly what changes in market institutions and industrial policies gave rise to the large decline in normal market hours is not clear....”).
It would be bad enough if Prescott were merely an obscure academic economist, but he is far from obscure: he and Kydland shared the Nobel Prize in Economics for the development of neoclassical growth theory. As ridiculous as his argument is, it does accurately state the conclusions of the neoclassical “real business cycle” model. As is often the case, you find a much clearer—and therefore far more obviously absurd—statement of neoclassical economic theory when you go to the source, rather than relying on a second-hand account from a textbook or run-of-the-mill practitioner.
So the confidence that the vast majority of economists have that the GFC is now behind us, and the “normal” trend rate of growth will resume, is fundamentally based on the belief that credit and debt dynamics do not matter.
I beg to differ. Though the enormous government stimulus has attenuated the immediate impact of debt deleveraging, it has done nothing to reduce the outstanding level of private debt. Instead even sub-par growth has become dependent on continuing government stimuli, and whenever those stimuli are removed, the economy will falter.
Total private debt rose by a mere A$1 billion last month, versus as much as A$30 billion during the height of the debt bubble. But were it not for the First Home Vendors Boost (let's call it what it is), Australia would now be firmly in the grips of deleveraging.
END OF COMMENTARY
COMMENTS ON THE DATA—A Mortgage & Government Led Recovery?

Total private debt rose by a mere A$1 billion last month, versus as much as A$30 billion during the height of the debt bubble. But were it not for the First Home Vendors Boost (let's call it what it is), Australia would now be firmly in the grips of deleveraging.
Nonetheless the debt to GDP ratio fell yet again, because the rate of growth of debt is now substantially below the rate of growth of GDP—even though that is now also anaemic.

The breakdown of debt shows that the business sector is rapidly deleveraging, while mortgage and government debt is escalating—and both those are the result of government policy.
Without the First Home Vendors Boost, it is highly unlikely that mortgage debt would still be rising today. Mortgage debt peaked as a percentage of GDP in March 2008, and fell for the remainder of the year until the First Home Vendors Boost.
The quarterly change in mortgage debt was also trending down from the 2005 peak, and that downward trend has clearly been reversed by the impact of the Boost.


House Prices

The Boost has certainly had the impact the government desired, of arresting the fall in Australian house prices.

It will also almost certainly guarantee that I'll be walking (and running) to Kosciuszko under the first half of the bet with Rory Robertson.[1] The second half of the bet, that the fall from peak to trough will be of the order of 40%, may still see Rory also walking some years hence—and the withdrawal of the Boost may make this occur sooner rather than later.
The reason is twofold. Firstly, the Boost has obviously brought forward some buying by First Home Buyers that would have occurred anyway, as well as enticing in others who might not have considered it otherwise. The withdrawal of that demand will have a strong impact on the sub-$500,000 price range.
But the withdrawal will also affect houses in the $1 million to $1.5 million range as well, because the Boost did far more than merely boost sub-$500,000 prices.
First Home Buyers who were enticed into the market by the additional $7,000 geared that up with additional debt by at least a factor of 4, to result in something like a $35,000 price jump for sub-$500K houses. But the sellers of those houses—the real beneficiaries of the Boost—then received an extra $35,000 in cold hard cash. They then used this as a boost to their own deposits on their purchases of houses further up the chain—and if they also geared by a factor of 4 (ie a 80% marginal level of gearing, which is well within current lending practice), then the prices they paid for houses in the $750K-1.5M range would have risen by $140,000.
This works in reverse as well. When the Boost is withdrawn, not only will sellers of sub-$500K houses find that buyers have $35K less to spend than during the boost, the sellers of $750K-1.5M abodes will find their buyers short about $150K compared to during the boost.
2010 could be an interesting year for Australian house prices.
[1] If the index breaks its current maximum level of 131 in the next release of ABS 6416, I will walk (and run) from Parliament House to Mt Kosciusko as required by the bet in the last weeks of February 2010.






September 3rd, 2009 at 11:05 am
Great analysis Stats, many thanks indeed. I don’t listen to the MSM anymore. It is full of economic crap.
ak,
It’s not to everyones taste I know, but personally I fully believe we have started C wave down in this ongoing bear market , or are VERY close to starting it. This will be a drawn out affair probably lasting into 2012 at least. Take a read through this site if you like;
http://danericselliottwaves.blogspot.com/
The market fundamentals are awful and when you have massive insider selling at stock valuations unheard of, corrections are going to happen.This rally have been predominantly a huge short squeeze and plenty of casino gambling utilizing the greater fool theory – it has run it’s course.Even China’s markets are plunging where the so called “miracle” is happening.This next leg down will make people think twice about believing all the garbage they are fed from Govts and the MSM- super funds will be 70% down and more before this disaster has ended.
September 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 am
Steve, not sure if this is the legislative change you are talking about?
http://www.xinc.net.au/investment_loans/super_fund.htm
Superannuation property investment is now available in Australia. Self Managed Super Funds (SMSF) often want to gear their real estate investments in order to diversify risk and increase the yield on their investment, but many funds do not have sufficient money to purchase real estate outright. The Superannuation Industry Supervision Act (SIS ACT) was amended in September 2007 to allow super funds to borrow and charge their assets so long as a special structure is used
You can now choose any kind of property including residential, commercial, retail, and holiday units for a property leveraged investment. Your SMSF can purchase real estate let for business purposes from a member or a related entity (ie: this does not breach the “in house asset rule under the SIS Act). Investments in property other than “business real property are permitted provided the purchase is from an arms-length vendor.
September 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Great, thanks for the research hawthorn_pessimist!
You are certainly right about the current state of the investor housing market, but I’d expect banks to start pushing this product more aggressively once the FHB boost comes to an end.
September 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 am
That’s it Starvos, and the post by hawthorn_pessimist gives the legislative line and verse:
(4A) Subsection (1) does not prohibit a trustee (the RSF trustee ) of a regulated superannuation fund from borrowing money, or maintaining a borrowing of money, under an arrangement under which:
(a) the money is or has been applied for the acquisition of an asset (the original asset ) other than one the RSF trustee is prohibited by this Act or any other law from acquiring; and
(b) the original asset, or another asset (the replacement ) that:
(i) is an asset replacing the original asset or any other asset that met the conditions in this subparagraph and subparagraph (ii); and
(ii) is not an asset the RSF trustee is prohibited by this Act or any other law from acquiring;
is held on trust so that the RSF trustee acquires a beneficial interest in the original asset or the replacement; and
(c) the RSF trustee has a right to acquire legal ownership of the original asset or the replacement by making one or more payments after acquiring the beneficial interest; and
(d) the rights of the lender against the RSF trustee for default on the borrowing, or on the sum of the borrowing and charges related to the borrowing, are limited to rights relating to the original asset or the replacement; and
(e) if, under the arrangement, the RSF trustee has a right relating to the original asset or the replacement (other than a right described in paragraph (c))–the rights of the lender against the RSF trustee for the RSF trustee’s exercise of the RSF trustee’s right are limited to rights relating to the original asset or replacement.
September 3rd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Conspiracy Quotes
“One of the reasons for conspiracy theories is an assumption that people in high places always know what they are doing. When they do something that makes no sense, devious reasons are imagined by conspiracy theorists, when in fact it may be due to plain old ignorance and incompetence.”
- Thomas Sowell
Or to put it into local terms – “When choosing between a balls up and a conspiracy, always choose the balls up”
September 3rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
The Australian Economy.
I note that Alan Kohler makes some interesting points on the Australian economy –
1) That Australia’s current situation is largely the result of China’s decision to build up strategic stockpiles of our raw materials. However, he notes that this is largely finished now, and future sales to China will have to match demand for China’s goods – sold largely to the USA & Europe.
2) That household debt is very large, and that it has been sustained by low interest rates, reasonably stable employment, and I suggest unprecidented government stimulus.
It’s not hard to see why those in power are nervous. Looks like the house may be built on sand, and we may not be able to withstand another financial storm, as the conditions that saved us the first time may not be repeatable.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/The-recession-that-never-was-pd20090903-VHSW9?OpenDocument&src=sph
September 3rd, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Steve & scepticus,
Thanks for that. I agree that the term externalities should be dropped, as it posits that humans and the environment are external to business.
How does one even begin to develop a monetary figure from these ‘endemic problems’?
A plausible case can be made that the most inefficient economic system in post-feudal history is capitalism with its markets uncorrected for negative external effects. Thus, I would advocate that the government create an entirely new department called the Department of Public Costs, staffed with legions of researchers, to develop estimates of such ‘endemic problems’.
joshua,
Why not move to the US? If you can secure a job and some grossly inefficient and ineffective private health care insurance, it could be worth doing so. You can find yourself a nice 3 bedroom house for $500 (this is not a typo) in Toledo, Ohio. Taxes are lower over there than here in Australia.
September 3rd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
There seems to be a widely held illusion that the “stimulus” provided by the Government is just ‘free” money. The “unexpected” increased Balance of Payments deficit is one indicator that there is indeed a price to pay. Another, and although this is State not Federal, the Queensland government has been running its own “stimulus” progrmane for years, borrowing heavily to finance expenditure. The Land Tax on my warehouse has just doubled and is now over 6x what it was just 5 years ago.
Increasing taxes on the productive sector, to finance consumption (including housing) in a time of declining economic activity does not seem like the brightest of ideas to me…
September 3rd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Is it time for some humour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0&feature=related
I liked it.
September 3rd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Here are some articles of interest.
Goods and services deficit balloons to $1.5bn
“AUSTRALIA’S monthly trade balance has slumped to its worst deficit in more than a year as exports remained weak, new data released today shows.”
“The was the fourth straight month the trade account has been in deficit and the biggest since May 2008.”
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,26021520-462,00.html
Beware next bubble – ANZ boss
“THE next “bubble” will come from the resources sector, putting pressure on Australia’s dollar and the economy, ANZ chief executive Mike Smith said yesterday.”
“Mr Smith said his greatest concern at the moment was the rising Australian dollar, a commodity-based currency, which would likely be artificially pumped higher by hedge funds and other investors pouring money into commodities.”
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,26020266-462,00.html
For Commercial Real Estate, Hard Times Have Just Begun
“These days, the people who buy and sell office buildings, shopping centers, warehouses, apartment buildings and hotels are hardly in a festive mood, despite some recent encouraging signs relating to the job and housing markets and a recent increase in sales of small office buildings.”
“But the damage is expected to be even greater for banks, which are holding $1.3 trillion in commercial mortgages (including apartment buildings) and $535.8 billion in construction and development loans, said Sam Chandan, the president of Real Estate Economics, a New York research company. About $393 billion worth of mortgages are scheduled to mature by the end of next year alone, and an estimated $39 billion more were due to expire this year but have been extended, he said.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/business/economy/02office.html?_r=1
California’s Other Real-Estate Crisis
“Data storage sites are moving out of Silicon Valley—at the state’s expense.”
http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/0s-1s-and-s/2009/09/02/californias-other-real-estate-crisis
The Rising Tide of Unemployment in America
“For example, PhD economist John Williams [Footnote] and Paul Craig Roberts [Footnote] – former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury and former editor of the Wall Street Journal – both said in December 2008 that – if the unemployment rate was calculated as it was during the Great Depression – the December 2008 unemployment figure would actually have been 17.5%.”
“According to an article [Footnote] summarizing the projections of former International Monetary Fund Chief Economist and Harvard University Economics Professor Kenneth Rogoff and University of Maryland Economics Professor Carmen Reinhart, U-6 unemployment could rise to 22% within the next 4 years or so.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14913
Do campaign contributions help win pension fund deals?
“More than two dozen firms that have surfaced in a broad corruption investigation of public pension funds gave at least $1.97 million in campaign contributions to officials with potential influence over the funds’ investments, a USA TODAY analysis shows.”
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/funds/2009-08-26-pension-fund-political-donations_N.htm
WSJ Excludes Economists Who Recognized the Housing Bubble from Assessment of Fannie and Freddie
“It was a remarkable failure of the economics profession and economics reporters not to see the housing bubble before it burst. It is truly incredible that so many can’t see it even after the fact.”
“Yes, it is strange but true. The WSJ has a discussion of the future of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and there is no mention whatsoever of their failure to see the housing bubble in discussing the causes of their collapse. If anyone at these institutions had been smarter than Barney Frank’s dining room table, they would not have been buying and guaranteeing mortgages used to purchase homes at bubble-inflated prices. This simple act is what doomed these companies. But the WSJ and its “experts” can’t even discuss it.”
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/beat_the_press_archive?month=09&year=2009&base_name=wsj_excludes_economists_who_re
The Reluctant Landlords
“With housing prices still in the dumps, many Americans are finding themselves in the uncomfortable position of landlord.”
“Some have been forced to relocate for a job and can’t sell their houses. Others have moved, but are holding on to their previous homes, hoping for prices to rebound before selling. Many are finding that rent checks don’t come close to covering their mortgage payments.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204731804574388683272200844.html
SEC Confesses, Blew Years of Chances to Nab Madoff
“The SEC looked into the Ponzi scheme as early as 1992 but kept flubbing it, according to its own probe. In part, Bernard Madoff seemed too ‘reputable’.”
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2009/db2009092_764788.htm
Study Shows Psychological Impact of Unemployment
“Against a backdrop of vanishing paychecks and dwindling savings, despair and depression are rampant, according to a study released on Sept. 3 by the John J. Heldrich Center for Workforce Development at Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.”
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2009/db2009092_648686.htm
Economic prospects look up Down Under
“Australia beats recession to be best performing country in advanced world”
Note: This article is a ‘brickbat’.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/economic-prospects-look-up-down-under-1780872.html
Small firms are waiting for months to get paid, says FSB
“Some of the best-known companies in Britain are causing the closure of 4,000 small businesses because of the late payment of invoices, according to research published yesterday by the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB).”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/small-firms-are-waiting-for–months-to-get-paid-says-fsb-1780870.html
Keynes: the return of the Master
“The crash of 2008 shattered intellectual assumptions as well as financial institutions. Rational expectations theory and some of its spin-offs – such as the efficient markets hypothesis, which suggests that markets are able to calculate and price all risks – did not fare well. The financial meltdown did not belong to its universe. The crash brought a reminder of the volatility and fragility of capitalist economies, and an end to hopes that booms no longer culminated in busts. For a few days in September 2008, the financial authorities faced the possibility of a complete breakdown of the banking system and the onset of a new Great Depression.”
http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2009/09/keynes-economics-economy-crash
The fat cats are back
“As governments dither over financial reforms, the bankers who caused the credit crunch are stashing away new fortunes.”
http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2009/08/bankers-financial-banks
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Robbo,
So do I
It’s refreshingly honest and cynically humorous
Thanks
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 pm
More Humour??
The Victorian Valuer General’s Office recently published some median price figures that are strangely at odds with the REIV (and others).
Quote ‘The new figures from the Valuer General includes almost every property sale in Victoria, in contrast to other published figures which do not include many results…..’ and ‘Although the VGs figures are published later than several private research companies, they are the most comprehensive available….’
According to the VG, Metropolitan Melbourne fell 3.6% in the March 2009 quarter from $385K to $371K. The REIV reported the median to be $405.5K. I suppose similar discrepancies would have existed in the June quarter numbers.
The cynic in me suggests a beat up to hose down any suggestion of a bubble forming. The article was after all written by the Herald Sun real estate editor.
Is it just me or did the likes of CJ start downplaying the heat in the market (i.e. 5-6% growth in the June qtr), the minute there was the suggestion of tightening monetary policy? It was a clear change from the previous chest beating.
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Joshua,
The Govt and BANKS HAVE BEEN EXTENDING CREDIT SINCE THE 70′s as best way they can to “keep the “Dream” alive. From single income to double income to all sorts of subsidy to get into housing. It finally ran its race in 2007, no more rabbits to pull out of the hat = pay back time, however, yet, wait a minute, don’t tell me, there is another one, let’s milk the compulsory super fund by borrowing against its future to keep the ponzi housing scheme alive! Votes -Votes – Votes.
Joshua, the eventual equation that savings=productivity cannot be ignored, however as you have pointed out can be postponed-how long? I don’t know.
I sold my house, my pride and joy for I know if I stay in this system of fools I will become one of them. At least I have the choice to buy back at any given time.
The other equation is -if housing is so unaffordable the alternative of renting must be better. So why not enjoy the freedom of renting whilst economic madness prevails no matter how long it takes. Life is only as long as it is. Enjoy it daily.
September 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 pm
“equation that savings=productivity cannot be ignored,”
Savings is not productivity. I have seen the above repeated over and over by various people ad infinitum.
Savings lent out again for productive purposes is productivity.
Savings not lent out because of lack of good investment opportunities or lack of borrowing demand implies falling productivity compared to the case where nothing is saved at all and all income is spent on consumption now.
September 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 pm
The global recession may already be over according the OECD.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32668728
And yes, I am aware of the OECD predictive prowess.
September 4th, 2009 at 12:25 am
When is that bet due?
If they bet can be renegotiated on a double or nothing for 12 months later, Steve should be safe, at least that what I think, but I’m not betting,
ONE in five property owners say they will face severe mortgage stress if their monthly home loan repayments are increased, a new survey has found.
The Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) has flagged that it may soon have to lift the cash rate from the “emergency” level of 3 per cent.
Economists say the cash rate could rise to 5 per cent over the next 18 months, which would lift monthly repayments by $450 a month on an average $340,000 mortgage.
An online survey by the Loan Market Group found that 19 per cent of respondents said any increase in interest rates would push them over the limit.
The survey of 600 respondents found 38 per cent could afford to pay only $250 per month more, while 27 per cent said they would be able to pay up to $500.
Only 16 per cent said they could afford to increase their monthly payment by more than $500.
“It should be a concern to the RBA and to the federal government that 57 per cent of respondents said they can’t afford rates to go up another two percentage points,” Loan Market Group executive director John Kolenda said, releasing the survey results today.
“It’s not just the RBA that home owners have to worry about.
“There’s a strong likelihood of the major banks lifting variable rates independently.”
September 4th, 2009 at 1:55 am
Hi Steve,
Just on instalment warrants…. I have to agree that it is a very interesting piece of legislation but i feel that the practicalities of it lessen the hype of any borrowing sprees by SMSF’s.
http://www.ato.gov.au/superfunds/content.asp?doc=/content/00132054.htm
Had a read on the above which explains that the legislation came about from the Government’s response to APRA and the ATO raising concerns that the longterm practice of investing in Instalment Warrants breached existing SIS Act regulations.
Maybe a pollie high up had a major stake in them in their Super portfolio at the time? Who knows?
I have sifted through a lot of SMSF’s over the past few years and have received commentary on this subject from professional bodies (not for some time mind you as the buzz has worn off) and I can tell you that I have not encountered any instalment warrants used to acquire real estate and it’s mainly a wait and see if the major banks would really want to get in to this style of lending. The most current commentary I’ve received tells me that they are reluctant. This could possibly due to the risk of of a larger loss on default born by the lender in such an arrangement (ie not being able to recover anymore than what could be received on the sale of the property on default).
But it never say never as it still can still be done…. it just has traces of sub-prime all over it.
I suggest the following is a good read too on the implications of instalment warrants used to acquire real estate in SMSF’s:
http://www.charteredaccountants.com.au/files/documents/superannuation%20funds%20and%20warrants.pdf
Anyhow keep up the good work Steve and all your contributors. This blog is fantastic reading and is a great source of the truth.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:01 am
I am going to have to read all of this, but it is clear that the economists are either idiots or the ones that can’t see the forest for the trees have their ideas presented. The adoption of an econmic model that recognizes the truth about economic expansion in the present model means the death of the present model growth banking system along with a new arrangement of retirement savings. Without growth banking, there isnt’ any growth equity, which is propelled by inflation. Of course inflation is nothing more than the expansion of spendable and liquid asset medium through the expansion of debt and credit.
It appears to me to keep the present model along with the external investment/savings models for retirement require that capital yield a much higher return than it currently does. Otherwise, an amazing amount of debt is required to fund retirement. It appears we are about to find this out in Japan, where debt is being liquidated because savings is being liquidated. It isn’t widely understood that a high savings rate implies a high debt rate. In essence, equity is also debt, though it isn’t recognized as such. The difference is that equity is in general separate from the financial system as it would stand and thus an individual loss wouldn’t be systematic.
I have contended for some time that deposit creation has to be nationalized, though I don’t like the idea of the government controlling much of anything. It is almost impossible for the compound interest equation to stand without continued expansion of credit. The current system of private money creation, something I believe the founding fathers of the US intended to prohibit because they had evidence models like we have today would fail, eventually exposes the supply of money itself to collapse and puts the economy of the world on a perpetual debt spiral. Clearly the power structure of the world is based on this banking model. I know this sounds conspiratorial, but only a moron who understands how it works would have a different idea.
In the place of the current system, we need a system where lending would be 100% reserve based. Money, risk and lending need to be totally separate from each other. Credit debt, in its current form implies that to get out of debt the supply of money has to contract. No one bank or group of banks should be endowed with the capacity to profit by overexpansion of such a system to fund the economy. The entire systematic risk we face today can be most likely traced to a group of no more than 20 banks with the capacity to create debt money. At the head of the list is my favorite whipping boy Citicorp. The American GSE’s, FNM and FRE, though basically capital outfits, were behind the expansion of bank credit, due to their perceived government guarantees. Thus home equity was monetized instead of being capitalized due to this outlet. The current buying of home mortgages by the US Fed is quite possibly nothing more than a transfer of credit already created and already in on the credit side of the US banking industry.
Thus there are 2 questions. One may solve much of the other, as a worldwide bankruptcy could be used to liquidate bank debt and replace the system in place. It is clear that we can either do this the hard way or the easy way and more likely this will be solved by a long run liquidation of debt by default and other means. It is clear that the technique being used in the current moment amounts to nothing more than a repeat of the Japan mess that most likely would have been solved years ago if they just got out of the way and let it get finished. Would it have been systematic? Maybe, but we are now looking at a much more deadly situation as a result.
September 4th, 2009 at 7:31 am
mannfm I agreed with some of what you wrote, disagreed with the latter half.
Fisrtly, steve and others have shown that the debt/banking system does not require money supply expansion to be stable. It may be that the current financial infrastructure requires it, but an appropriately sized, regulated and compensated financial sector can be sustainable.
Secondly, a 100% reserve system effectively eliminates intermediaries who are vital, in appropriate amounts, for a flexible economy. Government cannot be an intermediary. That said, IMO government provided deposit insurance coupled with private sector risk taking with those funds is not workable. The first step is to separate utility banking used by most of the population from the rest of the financial sector. This former sector it makes sense to nationalise, and the interest on deposits in the utility banking system should be zero.
More serious is the question about how the savings/loans market can operate in a long period of contractionary economics. Even with 100% reserve, if the economy is contracting then savers will stick with 0% interest since they are making a gain in real terms, in hence there will be no investment.
The solution is to allow negative nominal interest rates and eliminate or apply demurrage to cash. If and when recovery comes and growth returns, rates will go positive once again.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:28 am
The US Bond market has been dropping over the last month, not a good sign, but the press generally doesn’t notice except http://www.breakingviews.com/2009/09/01/bond%20market.aspx?sg=nytimes
September 4th, 2009 at 10:19 am
ak asked for some comments on the global stock markets. From the analysis that Steve has done it would seem clear that as private debt makes such a major contribution to GDP then the deleveraging that is occuring will see global stock markets decline as consumers pull in their belts. However I am expecting many companies to report good profits as they cut expenses(especially staff levels) as the automatic first reaction to declining sales volume. This, combined with government spending, has, in my opinion resulted in the ‘green shoots’ that have been widely reported and led(in part) to the increase in global stock markets over the last few months.
In the US I think we are approaching a critical point – I doubt that consumer spending is coming back, the expected increasing unemployment and forecast mortgage resets(leaving many more Americans with less money in their pockets) all point to a declining US stock market – which the rest of the world will follow. The unknown is the willingness of Governments to throw even more money of the problem. They almost certainly will but as Steve explains very clearly it will never be enough.
So in the US probably choppy waters for a while around the current Dow Jones level with a downward trend coming which other markets will follow. In the event of a ‘black swan’ event then a sharp correction is very likely.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Scepticus,
Please note that my comments are not intended as a critisism only as a guide to help my brain get around the subject matter.
You noted that it makes sense to natinalise utiity banking and that there should be 0% paid on deposits.
I do not see how such a system may work.
One of the hardest things for me at the moment is to sit on my cash watching it decrease (3% cash rate – 3.9% inflation = -0.9) while those with no savings (housing speculators) increase their wealth. And yes everyone can talk about the impending defaltionary cycle when cash will again be king – but depending on further government intervention it may not come for some time.
You also talk about a contracting economy where 0% returns are in effect positive in real terms. I agree and the maths is 100% however australia has not contracted in over 18 years so to have 0% rates in a predominantly expanding economy I think discourages savings.
Doesn’t 0% also create a need to look at alternatives to increase returns? Would this not then lead to bubbles in property and equities. Isnt this what happened in the US and Aust. through the early part of this decade.
I keep reading that one of the problems in western economies is low savings rates – wouldn’t 0% exacerbate this?
Would changing the RBA focus from inflation targeting to a specific rate setting say 7% create a more level playing field? Savers are rewarded and borrowers are more circumspect and speculation not as rampant.
September 4th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Theatre of the absurd
Observant piece by Alan Kohler.
“The debate about ‘exit strategies’ from fiscal and monetary stimulus is really just another form of spin – a way to get us all to focus on the splendid job our leaders did in saving us from economic calamity.
And indeed we were saved, and Rudd saw what he made and, behold, it was good.
The crisis allowed the normal rules of prudent budgeting to be thrown out and a massive Niagara of fiscal pork to be unleashed. Cash was handed out, rebates and subsidies paid, and as previously discussed here, the nation is becoming festooned with plaques and billboards announcing nation building projects that will be remembered by local electorates when it comes time to vote. The opposition is reduced to whining that, really, it’s time to stop already.”
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Theatre-of-the-absurd-pd20090904-VJSRK?OpenDocument&src=sph
September 4th, 2009 at 11:20 am
This is interesting as it suggests that our Labor overlords actually know perfectly well what’s going on:
“In unusually candid remarks, Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner told The Age the mining boom of the past decade had masked underlying problems that have left the economy vulnerable to external shocks and excessively dependent on overseas borrowing.
Lamenting Australia’s ”pretty ordinary household savings rate” and its ”very mediocre export performance”, Mr Tanner said many benefits from reforms introduced in the 1980s had now run their course.
”There is a mixture of issues there which we ignore at our peril,” he said. ”Our economic policy needs to be informed by the central question: what will we be selling to the rest of the world in 10 or 15 years time?””
http://business.smh.com.au/business/tanner-decries-chronic-weaknesses-in-economy-20090903-f9yx.html
September 4th, 2009 at 11:39 am
ak,
thanks for the link.
The issues raised in that article lead back to my previous post questioning the rationale behind low interest rate settings that lead to a reduction in the savings rate and an increase in cheap debt.
Is simply raising the target rate to 7-8% an option or will this have unintended consequences, other than deflating the housing bubble and bankrupting inefficient business?.
September 4th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Debtjunkies…your maths is wrong!! 3% interest – say 35% of 3% TAX = 1.95%-3.9% inflation = -1.95%!!! Taxation effects are never quoted in real interest rate discussions and I always wonder why.
Scepticus
I think there is one more problem in your interest rate scenario. Forgive me if I am totally ignorant but I don’t think Steve has got as far as including Current Account effects in his model? So as well as the speculative excesses debtjunkies points to, we would also have a blow-out in the CAD and thus major financing problems. The current disastrous external debt situation surely has its origins in negative after-tax real interest rates almost continuously for 50 years?
Again I am a bit like debtjunkies and I post mainly to learn….although sometimes a good rant makes me feel better !!!!
One more note…I was thinking maybe your solutions relate to how we ought operate if we were starting from scratch (and I’d be still a sceptic). 0% interest rates are not going to help us overcome this mountain of debt we have accumulated as a result of past negative interest rates. My old physics education tells me if you have a long period of negative you need at some stage a period of quite positive to rebalance things. Sorry for the simplicity but I’m getting on a bit and been through a lot of financial mills in my time….I just KNOW you get nothing for nothing…no matter how you fiddle with ‘stimulus’, interest rates etc. Again simplistic, I know, but it took me a lot of years to learn that simple fact.
As I’ve said elsewhere…sort of like the First Law of Thermodynamics
September 4th, 2009 at 11:53 am
debtjunkies The BIS, shortly before this GFC thing hit, published a rather extensive paper on the setting of interest rates and the function of interest rates. It basically questioned all the current theories on the appropriate levels of interest rates and more favoured your (and my own )type of reasoning. It created quite a stir in the Economic world. If I can find the paper again I will post it.
September 4th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Thanks Oracle.
September 4th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
ak,
It’s a bit rich Tanner lamenting household savings, when he and his Govt are spending not only ALL of the previous decade’s public savings, but also the NEXT decade of potential savings as well. Leaving the nation with a similarly large black hole balance sheet as many households.
Tanner is a politician first and foremost.His first priority is to get re-elected.He is hell bent on spending his way into the next ballot box win. Anything he utters is therefore worthless other than a guide to what evil plans he has to get his filthy mits on my wallet.
September 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
While I am no fan of Rudd et al and their spending, of all of them Tanner I think has the best head but is constrained by the public persona that is expected of senior cabinet members.
When the issue of taxing the family home was recently raised, Hockey went on the attack during question time and referred to comments by Tanner (during either the 80′s or 90′s) that the favourable taxation of the family home was not the best of policies – or words to that effect.
I think tanner understands some of the floors in the current system and the misallocation of capital and risk but is unable to let fly on the issue because it is completely opposite to what his mates are advocating.
Deep down, I think tanner truly understands the housing issue and what should be done.
Still wont vote for em!!!!!!!
September 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
How bad will it get?
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney09032009.html
September 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Further to my comments about Tanner here is a link to article about tanners former staements and the questions he faced during parliament over his comments.
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/pm-unaware-of-rich-homes-tax-review-20090817-eng3.html
As noted before I think he understands the issue, especially to have been able to identify it as a concern back in 1994.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
To anyone interested:
I started playing with some CPI data and got a bit carried away… First charts, then a blog post… If you’d like to see comparative graphs of CPI (including the component breakdown) in the US today versus the Great Depression and post-1990 Japan, take a look. You can always skip the commentary and click on the graphs, but either way, thoughts and opinions are welcome.
http://www.thoughtofferings.com/2009/09/price-deflation-today-versus-great.html
September 4th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
BTB and other experts,
Please take note that gold will be trading at 1224 by November 5.
My advice has been right and will continue to be correct.I told you about the bottom in gold in July and was questioned by BTB, i did not answer because i felt sorry for BTB and his fellow Prechterites who have been wrong on gold for 8 years and will continue to be wrong for another 8 years.
Everything that has been written on this website, has any of it been of any use to anyone?
Has anything come of it?No not really.
Trust me people load up on gold and forget the rubbish about deflation
I have proven myself no one else on this site can say that.
BTB if gold goes to 2000 Prechter will still say that it is a Bwave to be followed by the C wave correction to below 680. Bullchit!!!!!
Stick with me.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
debtjunkies, I was only proposing 0% on deposit-insured current accounts that you use for day to day stuff like paying bills and getting paid your salary.
With your surplus savings, yes you should be able to go out and seek out a better return, but I don’t see why I as a taxpayer should susbsidize your risk taking by paying to insure your lending. Anything over 0% should be a risk should it not – after all, a return on investment should not be guaranteed.
By creating a 7% rate of return on deposits AND insuring it for you free of charge, we have created a risk free asset returning 7%, which is a rediculous state of affairs.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
I think that guaranteeing all deposits in the first place was ridiculous.
From a personal point of view I am happy to accept 100% risk all my invetsmets whether they be cash or shares.
The govt should remove all guarantee’s however there must be 100% disclosure on all deposits to ensure the finacially unaware realise this.
As with most blog entries 99% has been lost in translation.
September 4th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
outback, steve has shown with his dynamic credit circuit analysis that expanded lending is not required year on year to sustain a debt based monetary system.
That implies that the system will operate properly without money supply expansion assuming interest rates are correctly set. At least I think that’s what his model shows.
So I believe one can have either +ve interest rates, or -ve interest rates without any change in the money supply at all, and hence no change in the value of the currency. Likewise, you can have excessive money supply creation under either +ve or -ve rate scenarios.
Banks will increase the money supply only if there is an increased demand for money. If we assume for a moment that loans would return to being made for productive purposes (as opposed to being made for speculation and consumption), then in a 0 growth or contractionary scenario like we face, there would be no demand for new money.
So as long as underwriting standards return to sanity, and if speculation can be contained then -ve nominal rates would work fine, and would simply serve to maintain the veolocity of money at levels which keeps the economy at reasonable levels of output and employment , without changing the money supply size.
Obviously these are big ifs, but it is helpful to separate how the system could work in future under more sane conditions, and how it works (or not) now.
September 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Are you people serious with the rubbish that you are talking about?
What the hell does it all mean and what does it have to do with anything at all?
I have given you profitable information and all you seem to babble on about is standard deviations of pi squared.
WAKE UP YOUR WORK MEANS NOTHING!!!!
September 4th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
good to hear from you outback ,
rant all you like, i’m sure this site is de facto therapy for alot of us,
better to rant than have wayne swan bouncing off the windscreen of your car,
sympathise about your point on the cad,
but i think the end game in all of this is probably going to be the collapse of the global currency and trading system, probably brought on by geo political miscalculations by any number of people .
my favourite is the north koreans
the current economic M.A.D (mutually assured destruction)doctrine being followed by the chinese and americans will one day come undone if it hasnt allready as a consequence,
only good thing is, that we can be self sufficient if we put our minds to it, so not getting money from the rest of the world might be just the kick up the pants we need to start getting creative
September 4th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Elliotwave.
You certainly have a way about you in winning freinds with your persuasive manner. I LOVE IT! Makes me think that your know all the answers It is wasted here on this site. Geez you should be advising the Govt. Kev needs your help. Please don’t speak to phlebs like me that are so ignorant when you have so much to offer.
By the way the only shares I have are GOLD shares. however I am not arrogant enough to claim that a past standard of mineral in today’s language is enough to be an alternative currency. Using the currencywe have should be with proper control be enough to conduct a balance economy. Ther is no proof that GOLD ever balanced an economy. Perception is not fact-
September 4th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
elliotwave
I forgot to mention that I am relying on well informed people like you to increase th “Gold” fever and make me enough money to retire for without people with delusion our society would not be were it is.
Thank you for keeping the fantasy alive.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Gold has been and will always be money, not a commodity.It never has been and never will
Did gold not act perfectly when at 258 we were coming off a 20 year bull market in currencies?
Now we are in a bear market for currencies and a bull market for real money gold.
GOLD IS MONEY DO NOT FORGET THAT IT WILL COME IN HANDY FOR YOU IN THE COMING YEARS
Please do not tell me that you own newcrest and lihir.
September 4th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Hi elliotwave
Why is Jim Sinclair not as bullish on silver…or is his attitude changing?
What form of gold does Jim Sinclair recommend, 1/2oz 1oz coins?
September 4th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
You tell me Chiswick, you seem to know so much about the great man.
What have you learnt from the greatest investor in the world?
September 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
US unemployment rate just came out up from 9.4 to 9.7
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
September 5th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Hi elliotwave
Last I read was that he believed silver would continue to perform like a commodity…he was not a fan.
I gather he likes 1oz gold coins?
I like him a lot but most other experts in precious metals like silver…Bob Chapman recommends a ratio of 70/30 gold over silver.
September 5th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Elliotwave, You are my hero, I am now in your command. What should I do next master??? Buy Gold?? Wait for a pullback?? Or is it straight to $10000 an ounce?? I will await guidance from the great oracle before making my next trade.
September 5th, 2009 at 5:45 am
Paul Krugman takes all economic schools (well almost all) to task and comes up with with…?
I’m not really sure, other than Keynes may be resurrected. Not surprising from a Keynesian.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Hi Elliotwave,
I have been away for a few days.
Just typed out a huge sarcastic reply and then deleted it. Don’t want flame outs now do we.
Prices go up and down. I was wrong on silver (this time). My stops saved me from big time loss though.
One thought I will share. You dumped on the deep thinkers on this site (I’m not one of them, I wish I was). Challenging the dominant paradigm, critical thinking and innovative thought is of much greater value than gold. I think you have caught the bug and are running with the herd. It is very comforting to run with the herd. Right up until the point that the herd gets slaughtered.
Good luck!
Below average minds discuss people. Average minds discuss people’s ideas. Great minds discuss new ideas.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Saw this story on Calculated Risk this morning. Very interesting.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lost-decade-for-job-growth-2009-09-04
“Yes, the very segment of the economy that was supposed to thrive under the Bush administration ended up with a net loss of 223,000 jobs since August 1999, according to the latest figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Meanwhile, the nation’s population has grown by 33.5 million people.”