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	<title>Comments on: Neoclassical Economics: mad, bad, and dangerous to know</title>
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	<description>Analysing the Global Debt Bubble</description>
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		<title>By: bad credit repair services</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-10275</link>
		<dc:creator>bad credit repair services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-10275</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;bad credit repair services...&lt;/strong&gt;

Is credit repair a“ scam”? Not the credit repair companies that I am familiar with- their clients enroll, pay a fee and generally graduate the program with higher (usually high enough to qualify for a mortgage) credit scores. That would seem to dis...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>bad credit repair services&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Is credit repair a“ scam”? Not the credit repair companies that I am familiar with- their clients enroll, pay a fee and generally graduate the program with higher (usually high enough to qualify for a mortgage) credit scores. That would seem to dis&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: yerselfissteam</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9609</link>
		<dc:creator>yerselfissteam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9609</guid>
		<description>Steve, hi from a first timer who is very impressed with your analysis which is the only explanation I&#039;ve heard that seems to make any sense of the mess we are in.

I gather from your writings that you think we just have to take our medicine as part of the recovery. Is there a model to explain how many will have to loose everything so that others can get their hands on enough cash to pay off their debts? ie to get aggregate household debt levels back to a sustainable 25-50% from the 150%+ is there a model or even rule of thumb to describe the depth of the depression?

If debt were to be retired are there preferred recipients of this generosity?ie household or business? partial or total?

I was a teenager in the &#039;70&#039;s, the last period of high inflation. You have mentioned inflating our way out of debt- do you think this cure mightn&#039;t be as bad as the disease?

After (and while) the dust settles we obviously need to renew the system. Money at it&#039;s most basic is the medium of exchange. Banking requires that we allow the banker to use money as if it were a commodity, and we allow banks to make money out of money. This is a corruption of money, but can be workable if the process is kept in check. The only other way to do this should be gambling, which of course is what the various money markets have become. Is this over-simplification to say that all activities (beyond limited credit creation for banks) which &quot;use money to make money&quot;( rather than goods and services) should be eliminated?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, hi from a first timer who is very impressed with your analysis which is the only explanation I&#8217;ve heard that seems to make any sense of the mess we are in.</p>
<p>I gather from your writings that you think we just have to take our medicine as part of the recovery. Is there a model to explain how many will have to loose everything so that others can get their hands on enough cash to pay off their debts? ie to get aggregate household debt levels back to a sustainable 25-50% from the 150%+ is there a model or even rule of thumb to describe the depth of the depression?</p>
<p>If debt were to be retired are there preferred recipients of this generosity?ie household or business? partial or total?</p>
<p>I was a teenager in the &#8217;70&#8217;s, the last period of high inflation. You have mentioned inflating our way out of debt- do you think this cure mightn&#8217;t be as bad as the disease?</p>
<p>After (and while) the dust settles we obviously need to renew the system. Money at it&#8217;s most basic is the medium of exchange. Banking requires that we allow the banker to use money as if it were a commodity, and we allow banks to make money out of money. This is a corruption of money, but can be workable if the process is kept in check. The only other way to do this should be gambling, which of course is what the various money markets have become. Is this over-simplification to say that all activities (beyond limited credit creation for banks) which &#8220;use money to make money&#8221;( rather than goods and services) should be eliminated?</p>
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		<title>By: Rustypenny</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9572</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustypenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 04:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9572</guid>
		<description>Phillip,

&quot;Ah, so because retail investors werent as smart as Mac Back they deserve to be in 10s of millions of dollars of debt.&quot;

You don&#039;t have to be smart as Mac Bank to know shares can potentially have calls outstanding.

That is the concept of limited liability, you are liable to any unpaid amount that can be called on the share.

If you don&#039;t understand that fact, then you shouldn&#039;t be buying shares.

[quote]Has there ever been a case where retail investors could buy shares online and be liable for 10s of millions of dollars.[/quote]

IPO&#039;s galore.

[quote]Macquarie Banks is a criminal entity that deserves to be destroyed. Anyone that supports them deserves what’s comming.[/quote]

No, shifting the downside of risk to retail clients should never be excused.

The same exists with Storm Financial clients, people with dozens of investment properties. They are keen to enjoy 25% returns per year, they are keen to increase rental returns 100% in two years, to be completely indulgent in greed. You don&#039;t buy a BrisConnect share in this environment for other than the desire to fleece someone else. There is a downside risk to this, and it is coming home to roost.

It is an obscene claim to say its the greed of the few who caused this. It&#039;s the greed of many, baby boomers and &#039;aspirational&#039; class alike paying reckless amounts for assets and attempting to shift this burden buy increases yields regardless of them not be sustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phillip,</p>
<p>&#8220;Ah, so because retail investors werent as smart as Mac Back they deserve to be in 10s of millions of dollars of debt.&#8221;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to be smart as Mac Bank to know shares can potentially have calls outstanding.</p>
<p>That is the concept of limited liability, you are liable to any unpaid amount that can be called on the share.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t understand that fact, then you shouldn&#8217;t be buying shares.</p>
<p>[quote]Has there ever been a case where retail investors could buy shares online and be liable for 10s of millions of dollars.[/quote]</p>
<p>IPO&#8217;s galore.</p>
<p>[quote]Macquarie Banks is a criminal entity that deserves to be destroyed. Anyone that supports them deserves what’s comming.[/quote]</p>
<p>No, shifting the downside of risk to retail clients should never be excused.</p>
<p>The same exists with Storm Financial clients, people with dozens of investment properties. They are keen to enjoy 25% returns per year, they are keen to increase rental returns 100% in two years, to be completely indulgent in greed. You don&#8217;t buy a BrisConnect share in this environment for other than the desire to fleece someone else. There is a downside risk to this, and it is coming home to roost.</p>
<p>It is an obscene claim to say its the greed of the few who caused this. It&#8217;s the greed of many, baby boomers and &#8216;aspirational&#8217; class alike paying reckless amounts for assets and attempting to shift this burden buy increases yields regardless of them not be sustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: homes4aussies</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9554</link>
		<dc:creator>homes4aussies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9554</guid>
		<description>Seems plausible to me, Philip. Much talk about banks attempting &quot;workouts&quot; with corporates, so I imagine they would be undertaking a whole range of measures to lower the risk associated with the mortgage books which make up about 50% of the big 4&#039;s assets. Could explain some of the disparity between bank loans and RMBS loans that the RBA has been discussing in latest Financial Stability Reviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems plausible to me, Philip. Much talk about banks attempting &#8220;workouts&#8221; with corporates, so I imagine they would be undertaking a whole range of measures to lower the risk associated with the mortgage books which make up about 50% of the big 4&#8217;s assets. Could explain some of the disparity between bank loans and RMBS loans that the RBA has been discussing in latest Financial Stability Reviews.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9502</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9502</guid>
		<description>homes4aussies,

I remember Steve saying something about the rate of foreclosures been kept artificially low by banks &quot;pressuring&quot; homeowners to voluntarily sell before they technically went bankrupt. Apparently, this was keeping the foreclosure rate four times lower than what it would really be. Any ideas about this? (I could be wrong on this one).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>homes4aussies,</p>
<p>I remember Steve saying something about the rate of foreclosures been kept artificially low by banks &#8220;pressuring&#8221; homeowners to voluntarily sell before they technically went bankrupt. Apparently, this was keeping the foreclosure rate four times lower than what it would really be. Any ideas about this? (I could be wrong on this one).</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9501</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9501</guid>
		<description>Jim

Very interesting interview - I fully agree with everything said, and it is interesting to see how Obama tries to follow Mr.Soros&#039;s advice as much as possible. I enthusiastically support the idea that stimulus through investment in new tech and infrastructure is the way forward.

I disagree with Soros&#039;s assertion that the future cannot be predicted. It is just that the wrong types of model are in use. The models must include ourselves - either by playing games (Second Life), by simulating human intelligence, or by direct imposition (command economy)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim</p>
<p>Very interesting interview &#8211; I fully agree with everything said, and it is interesting to see how Obama tries to follow Mr.Soros&#8217;s advice as much as possible. I enthusiastically support the idea that stimulus through investment in new tech and infrastructure is the way forward.</p>
<p>I disagree with Soros&#8217;s assertion that the future cannot be predicted. It is just that the wrong types of model are in use. The models must include ourselves &#8211; either by playing games (Second Life), by simulating human intelligence, or by direct imposition (command economy)</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-11/#comment-9500</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9500</guid>
		<description>Philip, Jim

The bancor will be implemented as a modified SDR under the auspices of new financial regulatory bodies. This is a part of what the G20 is expected to be able to deliver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip, Jim</p>
<p>The bancor will be implemented as a modified SDR under the auspices of new financial regulatory bodies. This is a part of what the G20 is expected to be able to deliver.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-10/#comment-9499</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9499</guid>
		<description>Frank,
Thank you for the link to the recent George Soros interview.  I think George Soros is one of the few high profile people that understands the seriousness of the GFC.  Back in October he was interviewed again and acurately predicted the GFC would get worse mainly because he could clearly see the authorities were doing too little, too late.  It was a great interview, but what really got my attention is you could see that this hardened man was actually very nervous about what he could see happening around him and was even more pessimistic than Steve Keen about the future (believe it or not!).  

If you are interested, here is the link:-
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank,<br />
Thank you for the link to the recent George Soros interview.  I think George Soros is one of the few high profile people that understands the seriousness of the GFC.  Back in October he was interviewed again and acurately predicted the GFC would get worse mainly because he could clearly see the authorities were doing too little, too late.  It was a great interview, but what really got my attention is you could see that this hardened man was actually very nervous about what he could see happening around him and was even more pessimistic than Steve Keen about the future (believe it or not!).  </p>
<p>If you are interested, here is the link:-<br />
<a href="http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-10/#comment-9498</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9498</guid>
		<description>The Guardian journalist George Monbiot has a good article on what should&#039;ve been in place of foreign exchange.

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/11/18/clearing-up-this-mess/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Guardian journalist George Monbiot has a good article on what should&#8217;ve been in place of foreign exchange.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/11/18/clearing-up-this-mess/" rel="nofollow">http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/11/18/clearing-up-this-mess/</a></p>
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		<title>By: evan</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/03/24/neoclassical-economics-mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/comment-page-10/#comment-9496</link>
		<dc:creator>evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=1643#comment-9496</guid>
		<description>alt49er,

I also was impressed with Bendigo Bank&#039;s community focus, etc.  

Then this (Jan 09):

http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/business/bendigo-bank-buys-macquaries-margin-lending-portfolio-for-52ml/1402404.aspx

What a shame.  Firstly, the Bendigo Bank chooses to deal with the criminal syndicates at Macquarie Bank.  Secondly, they seem to think it is a good idea to further inflate the nation&#039;s credit bubbles by promoting margin lending (which I think is probably the most pernicious form of credit creation available to unsophisticated &quot;investors&quot;).

If other community banks are any better then I&#039;d like to hear about it.  Out of curiousity I spoke to a loans officer and a branch manager at the Bananacoast Credit Union, headquartered in Coffs Harbour.  They were lovely people who were willing to lend me six times my gross annual salary for a home loan, with only a 5% deposit... and this was in late January 2009!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alt49er,</p>
<p>I also was impressed with Bendigo Bank&#8217;s community focus, etc.  </p>
<p>Then this (Jan 09):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/business/bendigo-bank-buys-macquaries-margin-lending-portfolio-for-52ml/1402404.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/business/bendigo-bank-buys-macquaries-margin-lending-portfolio-for-52ml/1402404.aspx</a></p>
<p>What a shame.  Firstly, the Bendigo Bank chooses to deal with the criminal syndicates at Macquarie Bank.  Secondly, they seem to think it is a good idea to further inflate the nation&#8217;s credit bubbles by promoting margin lending (which I think is probably the most pernicious form of credit creation available to unsophisticated &#8220;investors&#8221;).</p>
<p>If other community banks are any better then I&#8217;d like to hear about it.  Out of curiousity I spoke to a loans officer and a branch manager at the Bananacoast Credit Union, headquartered in Coffs Harbour.  They were lovely people who were willing to lend me six times my gross annual salary for a home loan, with only a 5% deposit&#8230; and this was in late January 2009!</p>
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