Neoclassical Economics: mad, bad, and dangerous to know
on March 24th, 2009 at 7:29 amThe whole of the most recent Real World Economics Review (formerly known as the Post-Autistic Economics Review) is devoted to the question of “How should the collapse of the world financial system affect economics?”.
My paper, which led volume 49, is reproduced below. If you’d like to read the entire volume, click here for the online version and here for the PDF. You can also go here for back issues, and to subscribe for free.
The most important thing that global financial crisis has done for economic theory is to show that neoclassical economics is not merely wrong, but dangerous.
Neoclassical economics contributed directly to this crisis by promoting a faith in the innate stability of a market economy, in a manner which in fact increased the tendency to instability of the financial system. With its false belief that all instability in the system can be traced to interventions in the market, rather than the market itself, it championed the deregulation of finance and a dramatic increase in income inequality. Its equilibrium vision of the functioning of finance markets led to the development of the very financial products that are now threatening the continued existence of capitalism itself.
Simultaneously it distracted economists from the obvious signs of an impending crisis—the asset market bubbles, and above all the rising private debt that was financing them. Paradoxically, as capitalism’s “perfect storm” approached, neoclassical macroeconomists were absorbed in smug self-congratulation over their apparent success in taming inflation and the trade cycle, in what they termed “The Great Moderation”. Ben Bernanke’s contribution to this is worth quoting at length:
… the low-inflation era of the past two decades has seen not only significant improvements in economic growth and productivity but also a marked reduction in economic volatility…, a phenomenon that has been dubbed “the Great Moderation”. Recessions have become less frequent and milder, and … volatility in output and employment has declined significantly… The sources of the Great Moderation remain somewhat controversial, but … there is evidence for the view that improved control of inflation has contributed in important measure to this welcome change in the economy … (Bernanke, 2004; emphasis added)
It is all very well to have economic theory dominated by a school of thought with an innate faith in the stability of markets when those markets are forever gaining—whether by growth in the physical economy, or via rising prices in the asset markets. In those circumstances, academic economists aligned to PAECON can rail about the logical inconsistencies in mainstream economics all they want: they will be, and were, ignored by government, the business community, and most of the public, because their concerns don’t appear to matter.
They can even be put down as critics of capitalism—worse still, as proponents of socialism—because it seems to those outside academia, and to neoclassical economists as well, that what they are attacking is not economic theory, but capitalism itself: “You think markets are unstable? Shame on you!”
The story is entirely different when asset markets crash beneath a mountain of debt, and the ensuing fallout threatens to take the physical economy with it. Now it should be possible to have the critics of neoclassical economics appreciated for what we really are: critics of a fundamentally false theory of the operations of a market economy, and tentative developers of a new, realistic analysis of the nature of capitalism, warts and all.
Changing Pedagogy
Given how severe this crisis has already proven to be, the reform of economic theory and education should be an easy and urgent task. But that is not how things will pan out. Though the “irresistible force” of the Global Financial Crisis is indeed immense, so to is the inertia of the “immovable object” of economic belief.
Despite the severity of the crisis in the real world, academic neoclassical economists will continue to teach from the same textbooks in 2009 and 2010 that they used in 2008 and earlier (laziness will be as influential a factor here as ideological commitment). Rebels economists will be emboldened to proclaim “I told you so” in their non-core subjects, but in the core micro, macro and finance units, it will be business as usual virtually everywhere. Many undergraduate economics students in the coming years will sit gobsmacked. as their lecturers recite textbook theory as if there is nothing extraordinarily different taking place in the real economy.
The same will happen in the academic journals. The editors of the American Economic Review and the Economic Journal are unlikely to convert to Post Keynesian or Evolutionary Economics or Econophysics any time soon—let alone to be replaced by editors who are already practitioners of non-orthodox thought. The battle against neoclassical economic orthodoxy within universities will be long and hard, even though its failure will be apparent to those in the non-academic world.
Much of this will be because neoclassical economists are genuinely naïve about their role in causing this crisis. From their perspective, they will interpret the crisis as due to poor regulation, and to government intervention in areas that should have been left to the market. Aspects of the crisis that cannot be solely attributed to those causes will be covered by appealing to embellishments to basic neoclassical theory. Thus, for example, the Subprimes Scam will be portrayed as something easily explained by the theory of asymmetric information.
They will seriously believe that the crisis calls not for the abolition of neoclassical economics, but for its teachings to be more widely known. The very thought that this financial crisis should require any change in what they do, let alone necessitate the rejection of neoclassical theory completely, will strike them as incredible.
In this sense, they are like the Maxwellian physicists about whom Max Planck remarked that “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it” (Kuhn 1970, p. 150).
But physics is charmed in comparison to economics, since it is inherently an empirical discipline, and quantum mechanics gave the only explanation to the empirically quantifiable black body problem. Planck’s confidence that a new generation would take the place of the old was therefore well-founded. But in economics, not only will the neoclassical old guard resist change, they could, if economic circumstances stabilise, give rise to a new generation that accepts their interpretation of the crisis. The is how the success of the Keynesian counter-revolution came about, and it is why we have we entered this crisis with an even more rabid neoclassicism than confronted Keynes in the 1930s.
The first thing that the global financial crisis should therefore do to economics is to galvanise student protest about the lack of debate within academic economics itself, because dissident academic economists will be unable to shift the tuition of economics themselves without massive pressure from the student body.
I speak from my own experience, when I was one of many students who agitated against neoclassical economics in the early 1970s at Sydney University, and campaigned for the establishment of a Political Economy Department. Were it not for the protests by the students against what we then rightly saw as a deluded approach to economics, the non-neoclassical staff at Sydney University would have been unable to affect change themselves.
Though we won that battle at Sydney University, we lost the war. The economic downturn of the mid-1970s allowed for the defeat of what Joan Robinson aptly called the Bastard Keynesianism of that era, and its replacement by Friedman’s “monetarism”. Our protests were also wrongly characterised as being essentially anti-capitalist. Though there were indeed many who were anti-capitalist within the Political Economy movement, the real target of student protest was a poor theory of how capitalism operates, and not capitalism itself.
Similar observations can be made about the PAECON movement today, where student dissatisfaction with neoclassical economics in France spilled over into a worldwide movement. Though the initial impact of the movement was substantial, neoclassical dominance of economic pedagogy continued unabated. The movement persisted, but its relevance to the real economy was not appreciated because that economy appeared to be booming. Now that the global economy is in crisis, student pressure is needed once more to ensure that, this time, real change to economic pedagogy occurs.
Business pressure is also essential. Business groups to some degree naively believed that those who proclaimed the virtues of the market system, and who argued on their side in disputes over income distribution, were their allies in the academy, while critics of the market were their enemies. I hope that this financial catastrophe will convince the business community that its true friends in the academy are those who understand the market system, whether they criticise or praise it. As much as we need students to revolt over the teaching of economics, we need business to bring pressure on academic economics departments to revise their curricula because of the financial crisis.
Changing Economics
The pedagogic pressure from students and the wider community has to be matched by the accelerated development of alternatives to neoclassical economics. Though we know much more today about the innate flaws in neoclassical thought than was known at the time of the Great Depression (Keen 2001), the development of a fully-fledged alternative to it is still a long way off. There are multiple alternative schools of thought extant—from Post Keynesian to Evolutionary and Behavioural Economics, and Econophysics—but these are not developed enough to provide a fully fledged alternative to neoclassical economics.
This should not dissuade us from dispensing completely with the neoclassical approach. For some substantial period, and especially while the actual economy remains in turmoil, we have to accept a period of turmoil in the teaching of and research into economics. Hanging on to parts of a failed paradigm simply because it has components that other schools lack would be a tragic mistake, because it is from precisely such relics that a neoclassical vision could once again become dominant when—or rather if—the market economy emerges from this crisis.
Key here should be a rejection of neoclassical microeconomics in its entirety. This was the missing component of Keynes’s revolution. While he tried to overthrow macroeconomics shibboleths like Say’s Law, he continued to accept not merely the microeconomic concepts such as perfect competition, but also their unjustified projection into macroeconomic areas—as with his belief that the marginal productivity theory of income distribution, which is fundamentally a micro concept, applied at the macro level of wage determination.
From this failure to expunge the microeconomic foundations of neoclassical economics from post-Great Depression economics arose the “microfoundations of macroeconomics” debate that led ultimately to rational expectations representative agent macroeconomics, in which the economy is modelled as a single utility maximising individual who is blessed with perfect knowledge of the future.
Fortunately, behavioural economics provides the beginnings of an alternative vision as to how individuals operate in a market environment, while multi-agent modelling and network theory give us foundations for understanding group dynamics in a complex society. They explicitly emphasise what neoclassical economics has evaded: that aggregation of heterogeneous individuals results in emergent properties of the group which cannot be reduced to the behaviour of any “representative individual” amongst them. These approaches should replace neoclassical microeconomics completely.
The changes to economic theory beyond the micro level involve a complete recanting of the neoclassical vision. The vital first step here is to abandon the obsession with equilibrium.
The fallacy that dynamic processes must be modelled as if the system is in continuous equilibrium through time is probably the most important reason for the intellectual failure of neoclassical economics. Mathematics, sciences and engineering long ago developed tools to model out of equilibrium processes, and this dynamic approach to thinking about the economy should become second nature to economists.
An essential pedagogic step here is to hand the teaching of mathematical methods in economics over to mathematics departments. Any mathematical training in economics, if it occurs at all, should come after students have done at least basic calculus, algebra and differential equations—the last area being one about which most economists of all persuasions are woefully ignorant. This simultaneously explains why neoclassical economists obsess too much about proofs, and why non-neoclassical economists like those in the Circuit School (Graziani 1989) have had such difficulties in translating excellent verbal ideas about credit creation into coherent dynamic models of a monetary production economy (c.f. Keen 2009).
Neoclassical economics has effectively insulated itself from the great advances made in these genuine sciences and engineering in the last forty years, so that while its concepts appear difficult, they are quaint in comparison to the sophistication evident today in mathematics, engineering, computing, evolutionary biology and physics. This isolation must end, and for a substantial while economics must eat humble pie and learn from these disciplines that it has for so long studiously ignored. Some researchers from those fields have called for the wholesale replacement of standard economics curricula with at least the building blocks of modern thought in these disciplines, and in the light of the catastrophe economists have visited upon the real world, their arguments carry substantial weight.
For example, in response to a paper critical of trends in econophysics (Gallegatti et al. 2006), the physicist Joe McCauley responded that, though some of the objections were valid, the problems in economics proper were far worse. He therefore suggested that:
the economists revise their curriculum and require that the following topics be taught: calculus through the advanced level, ordinary differential equations (including advanced), partial differential equations (including Green functions), classical mechanics through modern nonlinear dynamics, statistical physics, stochastic processes (including solving Smoluchowski–Fokker–Planck equations), computer programming (C, Pascal, etc.) and, for complexity, cell biology. Time for such classes can be obtained in part by eliminating micro- and macro-economics classes from the curriculum. The students will then face a much harder curriculum, and those who survive will come out ahead. So might society as a whole. (McCauley 2006, p. 608; emphasis added)
The economic theory that should eventually emerge from the rejection of neoclassical economics and the basic adoption of dynamic methods will come much closer than neoclassical economics could ever do to meeting Marshall’s dictum that “The Mecca of the economist lies in economic biology rather than in economic dynamics” (Marshall 1920: xiv). As Veblen correctly surmised over a century ago (Veblen 1898), the failure of economics to become an evolutionary science is the product of the optimising framework of the underlying paradigm, which is inherently antithetical to the process of evolutionary change. This reason, above all others, is why the neoclassical mantra that the economy must be perceived as the outcome of the decisions of utility maximising individuals must be rejected.
Economics also has to become fundamentally a monetary discipline, right from the consideration of how individuals make market decisions through to our understanding of macroeconomics. The myth of “the money illusion” (which can only true in a world without debt) has to be dispelled from day one, while our macroeconomics has to be that of a monetary economy in which nominal magnitudes matter—precisely because they are the link between the value of current output and the financing of accumulated debt. The dangers of excessive debt and deflation simply cannot be comprehended from a neoclassical perspective, which—along with the inability to reason outside the confines of equilibrium—explains the profession’s failure to assimilate Fisher’s prescient warnings (Fisher 1933; few people realise that Friedman’s preferred rate of inflation in his “Optimum Quantity of Money” paper was “a decline in prices at the rate of at least 5 per cent per year, and perhaps decidedly more”; Friedman 1969, p. 46, emphasis added).
The discipline must also become fundamentally empirical, in contrast to the faux empiricism of econometrics. By this I mean basing itself on the economic and financial data first and foremost—the collection and interpretation of which has been the hallmark of contributions by econophysicists—and by respecting economic history, a topic that has been expunged from economics departments around the world. It, along with a non-Whig approach to the history of economic thought, should be restored to the economics curriculum. Names that currently are absent from modern economics courses (Marx, Veblen, Keynes, Fisher, Kalecki, Schumpeter, Minsky, Sraffa, Goodwin, to name a few) should abound in such courses.
Ironically, one of the best calls for a focus on the empirical data sans a preceding economic model came from two of the most committed neoclassical authors, 2004 Nobel Prize winners Finn Kydland and Edward Prescott, when they noted that “the reporting of facts—without assuming the data are generated by some probability model—is an important scientific activity. We see no reason for economics to be an exception” (Kydland & Prescott 1990, p. 3). The failure of these authors to live up to their own standards1 should not be replicated in post-neoclassical economics.
References
- Irving Fisher, (1933). “The debt-deflation theory of great depressions”, Econometrica, Vol. 1, pp. 337-357.
- Milton Friedman, (1969), The Optimum Quantity of Money and Other Essays, Macmillan, Chicago.
- Mauro Gallegatti, Steve Keen, Thomas Lux & Paul Ormerod (2006). “Worrying Trends in Econophysics”, Physica A Vol. 370, pp. 1-6.
- Graziani Augusto, (1989). “The Theory of the Monetary Circuit”, Thames Papers in Political Economy, Spring, pp. 1-26. Reprinted in M. Musella and C. Panico (eds) (1995). The Money Supply in the Economic Process, Edward Elgar, Aldershot.
- Steve Keen, (2001). Debunking Economics: the naked emperor of the social sciences, Pluto Press & Zed Books, Sydney & London (click here for the eBook).
- Steve Keen, (2009). “Bailing out the Titanic with a Thimble”, Economic Analysis and Policy, Vol. 39 Issue 1 (forthcoming).
- Thomas Kuhn, (1962). The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, University Of Chicago Press, Chicago.
- Finn E. Kydland and Edward C. Prescott, (1990). “Business Cycles: Real Facts and a Monetary Myth”, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, Vol. 23, no. 1, pp. 3–19.
- Joseph L. McCauley (2006). “Response to ‘Worrying Trends in Econophysics’”, Physica A 371, pp. 601–609.
- Alfred Marshall, (1920). Principles of Economics, 9th Edition, Macmillan, London.
- Edward C. Prescott (1999). “Some Observations on the Great Depression”, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Quarterly Review, Vol. 23, pp. 25–31.
- Thorstein Veblen, (1898). “Why is Economics not an Evolutionary Science?”, The Quarterly Journal of Economics, pp. 373-397.



Hi Steve,
A very good summary of whats fundamentally wrong with the field at the moment.
For the undergraduates and phd students (who are the battleground for these competeting ideologies), many of these sentiments are ‘felt’ but often difficult to articulate. The challenge for PAECON and other heterodox projects is to be on students radars when they starting questioning the quality and relevance of their education.
Steve,
I live in the U.S. and am still trying to get some family members out of the market. I would love to send these non-economists a short non-technical summary of your views on the ineffectiveness of government intervention and the debt-deflation theory of depressions. Have you written such a short summary? If not would you consider writing one? Keep up the great work!!
Hi Gloomy,
Maybe the best brief argument there is in After our Economic Dunkirk. The data used is Australian, but the same arguments apply. Simply substitute say US$1 trillion for the size of the US stimulus package, and US$42 trillion for the size (at a very conservative estimate!) of US private debt–5% of which is 2.1 trillion–and you get the same result as applies for Australia, that “In the new economic Rock vs Scissors game, Deleveraging trumps Government Stimulus every time”.
Steve, thanks again for your clear analysis and for making your paper available to the public. Any academic dogma, like neoclassical economics, that pretends to explain how markets work without taking into account the overwhelming impact of fear and greediness of people is a very naive dogma and yes, a dangerous dogma. The vast majority of normal citizens are heavily exposed to boom and bust of a casino capitalism with little protection provided by their governments.
There is more than enough capital available globally, it just is currently hidden away and often unlawfully in the wrong hands. Without cleaning up the world of tax havens and offshore banking, as well a tighter controls on hedge funds and those financial businesses who serve anyone with money, no questions asked, it is difficult to see how a lawful banking system can be sustained. The moral hazard of fast and easy money will corrupt most bankers, unless banking is firmly regulated and bankers are subjected to law and order, just like other ’normal citizens’.
You can find further arguments concerning the urgent need for better governance in the global economic system in my recently updated blog:
http://globalinsights.wordpress.com/
Steve, Too theoretical for me. I am a retired businessman, and found there were many parameters (taxation,industry mores,government regulations,staff, bank overdrafts,competition) that affected every “business” decision I made. There is no “free” market, or “pure” capitalism. Your description of evolution of economic thought sounds like religion, the dark ages, the reformation and even Darwin’s “Theory of Evolution”. Many millions are still unconvinced, but,instead of dying out they are in fact reproducing and multiplying. More and more ratbags with broken wheelbarrows to push. Governments are forever distorting economic decisions, markets and business investments. The current Global Financial Cricis is turning into a farce,the prediction of “capitalism (unemployment)for the poor, Socialism (government bailouts) for the rich” is fast becoming the reality. If the topside parasites and predators who caused the crisis had to face the same consequences as everyone else we would have less of these “failures” in the future. What is wrong with some gentle application of defenestration as a partial solution to the resolution of payment for incompetence and destruction of previously venerated institutions? (Beare Sterns, Lehman brothers, AIG etc etc). One could interpret the whole crisis as a perfect example of Gresham’s law in full flight.
Steve,
I know that you’ll like this. It is an old post off the Roubini BLOG site from a poster known as London Banker. It speaks for itself.
“Long ago, when I was at university, my free market economics professor assured us that in theory, terms of trade benefitted developing countries by offering export markets for their labour and resources.
When I pointed out that reality had consistently impoverished developing countries with higher levels of external debt (this was just as the Third World Debt Crisis was getting rolling), I was told that result was due to “exogenous variables”.
I wrote at the top of my notes: “REALITY IS AN EXOGENOUS VARIABLE”.”
Steve,
I understand your point that the teaching and application of economic theory has been mathematically incorrect. However, it is extremely difficult for laymen like myself, who are not trained mathematicians such as your good self to follow all of the intricacies involved.
In order to influence public opinion, maybe these theories could be summed up and be expressed in much simpler terms.
e.g you could simply say that we must in the future just do whatever we have to do to STOP BUBBLES ! …. bubbles in housing, commercial real estate and most importantly, as you have pointed out many times bubbles in debt to GDP ratios. The authorities would only need to monitor the Debt to GDP ratio and if it starts to get out of kilter, take remedial action … restrict credit or whatever. It would seem to me that doing this alone would solve most of our economic problems.
I liked your suggestion quite a while ago about housing loans. The government could pass a law that all housing loans must be based on a valuation, which in turn is based on the rental value of a house. Alan Kohler showed a graph of German housing prices over the last few years on the ABC news a few months ago. It was an absolutely flat line. He pointed out that Germany is one of the few countries, which regards housing as a commodity rather than a speculative asset.
Until finding your work I was suffering under my own personal rational markets hypothesis – that people had the mental tools to rationally make decisions, even if they did not use them occasionally. Thanks for clearing that up Steve, many of the accepted tools are broken and fantasy rules.
Can we have a Geithner Plan post please? There are people declaring a new bull market today.
It seems that Geithner wants to force the market to price the toxic waste ASAP. I believe fund managers interested in investing have to register by April 10.
For this reason I think its a good plan. The sooner the toxic waste is priced the better, and it will (hopefully) remove a lot of uncertainty.
Unfortunately, I think the market will price the toxic waste at much lower levels than Geithner hopes, and there may be less investor interest than Geithner hopes.
Regardless we should know in a few weeks.
A short question for Steve, and other posters on this board: what are your thoughts on Henry George, and Georgist economics?
An interesting comment from U. of. Mo./KC forensic accountant William Black, (who was a bank examiner during the U.S. S&L crisis and fired for correctly challenging fictitious results):
“Economists in general, and Fed economists in particular, are a major cause of the financial crisis. Their philosophies and theories shaped deregulation and desupervision. They promised that “private market discipline” and “efficient markets” would produce growth and safety. The Fed’s economists’ research during the run-up to the crisis (A) ignored everything important, e.g., it denied the existence of a bubble, (B) praised the worst possible practices, e.g., Greenspan’s praise of subprime lending and financial derivatives and his article lauding “equity stripping”, (C) was full of undeserved self-praise, e.g., re “the Great moderation” that Fed policies (and neo-classical economics) had purportedly created, and (D) proved no practical assistance to Fed examiners/supervisors to deal with the crisis. Its mono-methodological reliance on econometrics produced the inevitable results — econometric studies, during the inflation phase of an epidemic of accounting control fraud must find that the worst possible practices (e.g., (A) exploding rate ARMs originated with no verification, no meaningful underwriting, no internal controls, and perverse executive compensation systems, (B) sold to others for pooling into CDOs, (C) extreme leverage, and (D) extreme growth are positively correlated with the increased “profit” and share prices. It is only after the bubble collapses that the true sign of the relationship will reverse. Economic theory teaches that regulation must fail. It creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.”
The full post is here:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/23/talking-economic-accountability-with-william-black/
A further line of criticism of the neo-classical mind-set is its failure to understand and inquire into the fact that markets are quasi-institutions, within a broader institutional framework, which can’t be solely reduced to the terms of market transactions, since, to the contrary, markets require such institutional supports to be sustained. That, plus a decent effort at a theory of business organizations, as emerging and evolving under market pressures at a conjuncture of markets with perhaps differing characteristic structures, which don’t necessarily and readily resolve into each other, but rather businesses survive and prosper, in part, by stabilizing or controlling one or more of the relevant markets, would be helpful.
Hey Carbonsink,
Here is what Denninger thinks on the matter.
http://market-ticker.org/archives/894-Open-Letter-To-The-FDIC-Ombudsman.html
He seems to think that the process will cause the prices to be bid higher than they would otherwise be.
Neoclassical economics contributed directly to this crisis by promoting a faith in the innate stability of a market economy.
With its false belief that all instability in the system can be traced to interventions in the market, rather than the market itself, it championed the deregulation of finance and a dramatic increase in income inequality
This is utter claptrap. Since when do free markets have central banks controlling the rate of interest and debasing the currency ?
For decades, every central banker has been following the Keynesian playbook. I could name a dozen interventions that created and fueled this speculative credit bubble. There was not a single government that allowed a free market in banking and unregulated financial markets to flourish.
mfm3939 – You better disabuse yourself of the idea that there is any theory or school of economics that can accurately model and predict an economy.
That is why it is all the more dangerous to listen to Keynesian and post-Keynesian ideologues who claim that they know just how to regulate the markets ‘just right’.
Free markets don’t claim to predict everything. But having a central bank is one of the policy prescriptions of the communist manifesto and the Austrian school of economics with its business cycle theory is very useful at explaining why each credit fueled speculative boom is followed by a bust.
A lot of the smarter folks have come up with some handy tools to identify systemic risk (Taleb) and speculative bubbles (Keen, Roubini) but unfortunately, they seem to prescribe the same kind of toxic poisons that caused the crisis in the first place.
Fiat currency, fractional reserve banking, government regulation, bailouts, pump priming, stimulus… “turning stone into bread”.. hooray for voodoo economics !
Happy days are here again !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Days_Are_Here_Again
Just another note on my question (re: Henry George), here’s a copy of his best known work (Progress and Poverty) for those who may be unfamiliar: http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm
The reason why I asked is – and correct me here if I’m wrong – but it appears as though the Georgist (or, if you will, the Neo-Georgist) explanation of the current crisis, and Steve’s, seem to be two sides of the same coin.
Steve’s main argument about the crisis – if I have understood it correctly, suggests (in a nutshell) that we are in a debt crisis, and this has precipitated a housing (or land price) bubble. The Georgist argument appears to be that we are in a land price bubble, and this had caused people taking on more debt than they can sustain. Again, please correct me if I’m wrong in this assessment.
In which case, in light of this current crisis, what do people on this board make of Henry George, and his ideas?
Jono
“Every central banker”, permitted irresposible lending policies inspite of an obviously out of control bubble inflation process taking place for at least three decades. This also inspite of history showing similar outcomes in 1892, 1932.
Not a single government did anything to bring these bubbles under control. One advantage of your imagined “free market” would have been that the collapse would most likely have taken place two or three decades earlier. We may have now been closer to a real free market governed by the rule of law.
Could you name, say two of these “dozen interventions” for critical examination by other members of this blog and professor Keen?
So far, what have said is not supported, and more closely resembles clap trap.
Dear Jono,
You seem to be posting opinions without reading those you are allegedly replying to. At no point have I called for any of “Fiat currency, fractional reserve banking, government regulation, bailouts, pump priming, stimulus”. I have instead proposed two redefinitions of the legal framework surrounding the secondary markets for assets:
(1) Making company shares last 25 years; and
(2) Setting house valuations on a multiple of the yearly rental of the property, and not allowing a debt of any more than (say) ten times the annual rental income to be secured against the property.
Apart from that, I’d rather let the free market rip than support intervention, central bank “rescues”, regulation, etc.
evokadevo – you are correct, we dont have a free market. Its hard to say what name best describes our corrupt system.
The Fed and the owners of the Fed know very well the theories of bubbles. How does one engineer a system such that the top 1% of society owns 24% of the wealth (in the US) and that 50% of new wealth in the world from 2003-2008 went to that top 1%; simple, they create bubbles with the help of bought and paid for politicians. The masses fall for it evry time as they really belive that they are getting FREE money as their asset prices rise.
It is no accident folks. Those advocating more government intervetion have fallen for it; this is what they want. Take money from the productive middle class and funnel it through the central banks and then to the banks with scarps thrown to the entitlement class to keep them happy.
A free market with enforced basic regulation (as we once had) would have shown the fraudters up a long time ago.
I’m afraid nothing can change the course we are on. I have spoken to many whom I thought educated and found a pattern. Those in debt or those that stand to lose from asset deflation wants the bubble restarted. My gues is that this group is now in the majority and we are now witnessing the failure of democracy brought on by its fundamental flaw – ie. the masses have figured how to vote for the public purse not knowing that they have been duped.
Dear amishthrasher,
My first encounter with Georgists came when as a student I organised a Conference on Radical Economics at Sydney Uni in 1972. It was no great shakes as a conference, but a few Georgists there made it entertaining–and put me off Georgism for almost a lifetime. They were so doctrinaire they made “labour theory of value” Marxists look flexible, and they had a one-size-fits-all solution for everything–land tax.
I therefore didn’t read as much of George as I might have done, had I not encountered some of his supporters before my strong interest in the history of economic thought was ignited.
I was also trepidatious about accepting an invitation to speak to a Georgist group in Melbourne, and I was more than pleasantly surprised by the reasonableness of the people there–in particular Bryan Kavanagh, who is now a member of the blog here.
I still have a problem with what I know of the basic Georgist analysis, which I think sees the sole problem as being land valuation, when I think the core problem is the financial system’s willingness to fund asset price speculation–and the fact that it can be profitable for individual speculators. But one day I will sit down and read the whole of George to be able to put a stronger handle on my opinion–or to revise it if necessary.
Steve Keen said,
“2) Setting house valuations on a multiple of the yearly rental of the property, and not allowing a debt of any more than (say) ten times the annual rental income to be secured against the property”
Yes, its all about leverage. The laws preventing investments banks to lever up to insane levels were all torn up with heavy pressure by the likes of Hank Paulson of Goldman Sachs. Mr. Paulson of course went on to become the Head of Treasury in the US – fitting when you consider how the game is played.
carbonsink said
“Can we have a Geithner Plan post please? There are people declaring a new bull market today”
You may want to check out what the Denninger blog is saying:
http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=88307
I think it is safe to assume that the aim of the plan is to make the banks and bond holders whole again at taxpayers expense.
hi steve,
i know thomas kuhn says that proof alone isnt enough, and prejudice dies when its owner dies.
usually people have to be dragged kicking and screaming to give up their ideology and prejudices.
but i think there are cathartic moments or periods in history, when the battle for ideas arnt won and lost in the world of academia, they decided on the battlefield of the real politic.
as kuhn points out , its not neccesarilly the fact that there is proof, but how much proof, before people decide things need to change.
the question is what kind of change.
will the real politic be dragged kicking and screaming like a grumpy 2 yearold to the table of keen a nomics et al.
or will our political masters and those who advise them follow there neo classical predilictions to the bitter end.
if there predilictionsare are unable to provide solutions, the people will vote in another group of politicians who will be willing to overturn the applecart.
actually i think this is the most dangerous implication of what you are saying.
what populist demagog may emerge from the turmoil whos interlectual foundations lie in neo classical economics.
the people at the harvard business school might like to think that they are responsible for all the great business models going around, but infact,its former match sellers like ingvar kamprad (ikea), or high school and college drop outs like li ka-shing and bill gates, or christmas tree salesman like richard branson that come up with business models.
its there creativity,and there ability to influence those in power, for better or for worse that drives capitalism. it wouldnt have mattered if keen a nomics was the dominant paradime or not
please ignore the last 2 paragraphs-i was supposed to delete them
Hi Steve
I can imagine your paper, edited a bit for a broader audience, as Chapter 1 of a stunning sequel to Debunking Economics.
Victor Neiderhoffer or someone once said about financial markets, that once the players figure out the market it changes. I am not sure of economics is quantifiable due to this very idea. What I do know is that every major financial crisis I know of revolved around excessive debt, excessive speculation, excessive monetary expansions and a concentration of risk. As I have studied this stuff, the central banks kind of make the idea of free and efficient markets fairly absurd ideas. It is difficult to deal with the compound interest equation in any setting, as debtor never has enough money to pay the money lender or money creator and at some point the divergence between depositors of intermediaries and debtors of intermediaries becomes irreconcilable. The Constitution of the US prohibited Titles of Nobility and I believe the endowment of a capacity to create credit in midst of a banking monopoly maybe in fact be a Title of Nobility. For whatever reason, most likely recorded history of the destruction from the South Seas and Mississippi bubbles, the founders of the US took a dim view of money creating banks.
At this point I would venture that the bankers of the world have the economies over a barrel. Our problems stem from the fact that bankers allow us to bring the future into the now by lending us our future. Eventually we hock enough of our future at interest that many of us don’t have much more future to hock and we enter times like these. When did all this start? My guess is this cycle started when FDR devalued US money and most certainly at Bretton Woods. The capacity of finance to self correct has been destroyed by 2 factors, one being there isn’t any money today, only credit and the other that government does its best to maintain the status quo and prevent correction. Thus the players in the markets have no dicipline nor any experience in making mistakes. How many of these fat cats on Wall Street would still have their heads if we were playing a real game as opposed to the jack and pack game they have played? How much of this stuff would go on if stocks weren’t held by stupid people who became investors while this bubble was being blown? Wall Street and management manipulate stocks upward, not for the shareholder, but in order that they make money out of it. The shareholder is eventually left holding the bag.
Thus money management and the absense of central banks and other playing ground shifters seems to be the solution. A credit system based on exponential debt growth or else is one that ends in disaster. At present, the world is trying to fix the status quo and most certainly the Americans are. The hope is we can return to churning out ever greater piles of debt and the owners of $20 million condos in NYC and aim to get themselves a $40 million one while the borrowers of all this stuff can then not be able to pay back $200,000 instead of $100,000 or whatever the number is.