Has Debt-Deflation Begun?
on November 20th, 2008 at 11:05 amToday’s CPI data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics reveals that consumer prices fell by 1 percent in the month of September. This is the steepest monthly fall in the index since January 1938, and comes after two previous monthly falls (of 0.4 and 0.14 percent). It is therefore possible that a debt-deflationary process is underway.
Monthly Change in US CPI since 1924
There is no doubt that we are in a debt-induced economic crisis; America may now have entered a deflationary crisis as well. The combination of the two is the motive force that sets in train a Depression, as Irving Fisher explained in 1933, in his academic paper “The Debt-Deflation Theory of Great Depressions” (Econometrica, 1933, Volume 1, pp. 337-357).
According to Fisher, the steps that lead from a debt crisis, to falling prices, and a Depression are:
“(1) Debt liquidation leads to distress selling and to
(2) Contraction of deposit currency, as bank loans are paid off, and to a slowing down of velocity of circulation. This contraction of deposits and of their velocity, precipitated by distress selling, causes
(3) A fall in the level of prices, in other words, a swelling of the dollar. Assuming, as above stated, that this fall of prices is not interfered with by reflation or otherwise, there must be
(4) A still greater fall in the net worths of business, precipitating bankruptcies and
(5) A like fall in profits, which in a “capitalistic,” that is, a private-profit society, leads the concerns which are running at a loss to make
(6) A reduction in output, in trade and in employment of labor. These losses, bankruptcies, and unemployment, lead to
(7) Pessimism and loss of confidence, which in turn lead to
(8) Hoarding and slowing down still more the velocity of circulation. The above eight changes cause
(9) Complicated disturbances in the rates of interest, in particular, a fall in the nominal, or money, rates and a rise in the real, or commodity, rates of interest.” (Econometrica, 1933, Volume 1, p. 342)
This process is starkly apparent in the US data. After 1930, everyone in the USA was trying to reduce debt–but the debt to GDP ratio rose nonetheless.
US Debt to GDP Ratio 1925-1935
The ratio rose because prices fell by up to 10 percent per annum, and real GDP also collapsed by as much as 13 percent in one year (the GDP data is yearly and therefore understates the steepness of the fall in output). Attempts by individuals to pay down their debts were swamped by prices and incomes that fell faster still. The phenomenon that, as he put it, “the more debtors pay, the more they owe”, deserves to be named “Fisher’s Paradox” in his honour.
Falling Prices and Falling Output
That train of events is now quite possibly unfolding in the USA right now–and from a level of debt that is twice as high (relative to its GDP) as it was in 1929.
America's modern debt bubble dwarfs the one that caused the Great Depression
Fisher’s explanation of how the Great Depression came about was one of the great, neglected contributions to economic theory. There are two reasons why it was neglected–one tragic, the other scandalous.
The tragedy was that, prior to the Great Depression, Fisher was the pre-eminent academic cheerleader for the boom of the Roaring Twenties, and he had also invested his fortune in margin-loan-financed stock purchases. His reputation was destroyed when, in the middle of the market crash, he made the following pronouncement (which was duly reported in the New York Times):
“Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau.
I do not feel that there will soon, if ever, be a fifty or sixty point break below present levels, such as Mr. Babson has predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher than it is today within a few months.”
His fortune was destroyed by the margin calls that came with the collapse. Having made a tidy sum by inventing the Rolodex and selling it to the Rand Corporation, his paper worth (in 2000 dollar terms) was well over $100 million. He lost the lot and was only saved from bankruptcy by his wife’s sister’s wealth, and her forgiveness of his debts to her on her deathbed.
In a reverse of the old parable about “the boy who cried wolf”, Fisher’s accurate diagnosis of the causes of the Great Depression was tainted by his previous failure to see it coming, and by his misleading assurances to the public that there was nothing to worry about.
The scandal is that, after he dramatically revised his approach to economics and came up with a cogent explanation of the process that could cause a Depression, his work was ignored by the economics profession because it was incompatible with the concept of equilibrium. I will cover this issue in much more detail in my next Debtwatch Report in December, but here is a quick precis.
The dominant economic theory of the 1920s assumed that the economy was always in overall equilibrium, and would tend back to equilibrium from any disturbance. Fisher subscribed to this belief, and developed the application of this theory to finance.
In the early 1930s, chastened and effectively bankrupted, Fisher came to appreciate that a misguided belief in equilibrium was the reason he had failed to anticipate the Great Depression. He reasoned that, even if the economy did in fact tend towards equilibrium, in the real world “New disturbances are, humanly speaking, sure to occur, so that, in actual fact, any variable is almost always above or below the ideal equilibrium”.
The world therefore had to be analysed using disequilibrium thinking–and using this insight, he developed the debt-deflation analysis, in which he reasoned that the “two dominant factors” that cause a Depression are “over-indebtedness to start with and deflation following soon after”.
Following Fisher’s lead would thus have required the economics profession to abandon the practice it had developed–of analysing the economy as if it were always in equilibrium–and take on a new, challenging approach of modelling disequilibrium processes.
Faced with this choice, the economics profession did what it has always to date done–it obfuscated and bifurcated. The dominant majority of the profession ignored Fisher’s arguments, and stuck with the familiar tools of equilibium analysis; only a minority (most notably Hyman Minsky) heeded Fisher’s warning.
Today, economists trained in the majority tradition—who almost certainly didn’t study Fisher in their university courses, and who certainly didn’t follow his guidance in their economic analysis—continue to analyse the economy using models that presume it tends towards equilibrium.
Worse still, these models ignore completely the issue that Fisher emphasised was the most important one—the level of private debt. And economists who believe in them occupy all the official positions in Treasuries and Central Banks around the world. Politicians following their advice can be forgiven for not realising that they are being misled, because even those economists themselves don’t realise it (though they are beginning to appreciate this lesson the hard way–see Australia’s RBA Governor Glenn Stevens’s comment yesterday that the current financial crisis has taught Central Bankers that they “could have a more conservative attitude to debt build-up”.
The economic crisis we are now experiencing is in no small measure a product of that academic decision to ignore debt, and to model the economy as if it is always in equilibrium. Had economics instead followed Fisher’s lead, our economic managers would have been attuned to the dangers of excessive debt, and aware of the tendency for the economy to undergo bouts of debt-financed exuberance that drive it far from equilibrium–and potentially to the brink of a debt-deflation.
With the apparent development of a deflationary trend in America, we may now have taken the first step over that precipice.



Carbonsink,
Unfortunately, ABS data contradicts Saul Eslake’s perspective on Australia’s housing situation. Check out these two links, it is rather informative. In short, the number of dwellings has increased faster than population. For example:
“The Northern Territory population decreased 4.85% and the number houses increased by 3%!” http://bubblepedia.net.au/tiki-index.php?page=OverbuildingByLocation
while prices in the NT actually increased http://www.homepriceguide.com.au/media_release/index.cfm?action=view_archives
What can explain this paradox is not the usual “supply and demand” based upon rational factors, but supply and demand based upon an irrational orgy of debt-induced speculation. Furthermore, when property “investors” speculate on residential property, some will not engage in the hassle of renting it out in the meantime as property prices appreciate, thus resulting in an empty house not been used, until it is sold off in the future to someone who will purchase the house at further inflated prices – essentially a ponzi scheme.
These two website have a lot of interesting information and data relating to this topic: http://bubblepedia.net.au/tiki-index.php and http://www.whocrashedtheeconomy.com
In the New York Times, Jamie Galbraith (son of J.K. Galbraith) noted that out of 15,000 professional economists in the U.S., about 10-12 correctly identified the housing bubble. Dean Baker – http://www.cepr.net – is the only economist I know of who has identified all three U.S. bubbles before they burst (Dot-Com, dollar, and housing bubbles) when all others didn’t recognize them. Galbraith pointed out that the vast majority of economists don’t realize these things because they “teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless.” This is what Keen has been saying all along.
The most highly educated economists in the U.S. (Bernanke et al), from universities such as Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Chicago, etc, failed to see any of the three bubbles (though the dollar bubble was official Clinton economic policy crafted by Rubin – and economists complain about a current account deficit!?). Harvard’s leading specialists on residential housing stated that there was no housing bubble, duh.
The vast majority of economists in Australia (and elsewhere) miss it because they believe in the religion on neoclassicism: markets are in equilibrium, “investors” have rational expectations (they all know every piece of information now and into the future, having compiled this store of knowledge at time = 0 – essentially they are gods), private debt is the outcome of rational contracts based upon such knowledge so the stock of private debt doesn’t matter in the least, etc. Therefore, bubbles are not possible. This belief is based upon “a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless.”
That I believe should sufficiently answer your question.
Carbon Sink
This same statment has been made all over the world…California, London, Hong Kong, China…etc
I don’t have a definitive answer but here are a few things for consideration
1. In a downturn immigration will not continue at the levels now projected
2. Young people will move back home with parents. Others now living on their own will share.
3. Large numbers of houses are ‘unoccupied’(ABS Census stats indicate 10%) This is particularly the case where prices are rising. There is lots of movement. Second, sometimes, when prices are rising people just leave the properties unoccupied. I was looking to rent a house for $430.00. The house is worth about $1M. So, the owners decided for the small amount of rent why risk renting it and having it deteriorate
4. House prices are largely governed by expectation that prices will keep on rising. This allows the purchaser to pay much more than the house is “really” worth. Therefore too much debt burden etc. So when the expectation of r’eal estate always goes up forever’ is proven false, mayhem results
5. Aus has had tax and financial policies that have resulted in massive overinvestment in houising for the past 50 years. I’m not too sure we overinvest in terms of quantity of houses built (in fact I’d say that has not happened. Nevertheless we overinvest in size! In times of economic stringency, it is difficult to sell what people don’t NEED. They don’t NEED a McMansion…so they won’t pay for one. They will pay a much lower price for the McMansion in terms of its USE.
Just a few thoughts
Can you please point me to some evidence that occupancy rates are low. What exactly do you mean? I keep reading about rental crises in every capital city.
Bubblepedia has a section that covers the reasons why there is no housing shortage in Australia. I think we have had a shortage of sellers, with more buyers (former renters and First Home Buyers) coming into the market.
They said the very same thing in California in 2005/2006 and then wham house prices fell.
Australia is just held on longer and our situation is much worse debt wise than the US. I just did a loan interview with a couple wanting to buy a $300k home they had two kids and no debt and a 5% deposit. They did not earn enough even with the reduced interest rates. I have never in 20yrs of banking seen the enquiry rate so low. The 90′s was quite but this is dead. I think it is amazing that economists just deny what is going on. If I see the guy from Commsec or David Kosch talk about how it is different here one more time I will kill someone. They have been wrong everytime they open their mouths. I also beleive many of our banks are no as insulated from this as many would believe. I think the three major regional banks. Suncorp, bendigo and Bank of Qld will find it very difficult to compete as they cannot access funding as cheaply as the big banks can. So I worry they will begin to shead jobs and this will cause a real crisis of confidence in Australia. Less lending means less income for the banks.Interesting times ahead.
Hi Outback Oracle,
Welcome back. I have missed you.
Can I add to the supply discussion.
Remember what Steve keeps saying that Keynesian theory ignores debt levels. So the Keynesians are happy to talk about supply but they assume debt doesn’t matter. Wrong!!!
Some empirical evidence now. I live on the Northern Beaches of Sydney. I have been involved with property development for nearly 15 years. (I know I am evil) As a banker I have funded many new dwellings and as a developer I have built many. I have observed the market closely over the years. This area has been “chronically under-supplied” (according to them) for many years. It has been very hard to get new dwellings built in this area because of low yield zoning and political/Council opposition. Yet, this area has greatly “underperformed” the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs. Despite under-performance prices have still been a bubble.
Since November 2007, supply has been virtually unchanged. Yet from November to May, prices fell 10% to 15%. (I know because I was selling several brand new houses at the time) Furthermore, a reliable real estate agent (hard to find I know) tells me that prices have fallen a further 10% in the last 3 to 4 weeks. This agent said “The few buyers that are around are either having difficulty getting finance, can’t sell their house or they are too afraid to commit for fear that prices will fall further or they may lose their jobs”.
Supply did not affect the rising prices, nor is it affecting the falling prices. Demand is by far and away the dominant driver.
Carbonsink – the only supply/demand relationship affecting property prices is:
n houses available for sale / n buyers willing to buy at current price levels
The market is flooded with properties for sale and the number of buyers have dried up. On that basis, the supply/demand situation is dire for property prices.
The “housing shortage” argument is a red herring and a tool for spruikers. There is no shortage – and as outlined in above posts once the recession begins to bite the presumed shortage will quickly turn into a very real glut. History repeats.
The main problem with the supply-demand argument is that the demand is only for property that people can afford which generally means that the bank will lend the money and that seems good as an investment. As our economy goes down, incomes reduce and borrowing reduces. 100% loans have ended and sometime next year 80% will probably be the maximum. Mortgage stress is becoming widespread even though interest rates are dropping, as flow of money into the economy slows.
As to the argument that rents will increase, they seem fairly much maxed out and at some stage we will have higher occupancy levels reducing demand.
Carbonsink,
Unfortunately, ABS data contradicts Saul Eslake’s perspective on Australia’s housing situation. Check out these two links, it is rather informative. In short, the number of dwellings has increased faster than population. For example:
“The Northern Territory population decreased 4.85% and the number houses increased by 3%!” http://bubblepedia.net.au/tiki-index.php?page=OverbuildingByLocation
while prices in the NT actually increased http://www.homepriceguide.com.au/media_release/index.cfm?action=view_archives
What can explain this paradox is not the usual “supply and demand” based upon rational factors, but supply and demand based upon an irrational orgy of debt-induced speculation. Furthermore, when property “investors” speculate on residential property, some will not engage in the hassle of renting it out in the meantime as property prices appreciate, thus resulting in an empty house not been used, until it is sold off in the future to someone who will purchase the house at further inflated prices – essentially a ponzi scheme.
These two website have a lot of interesting information and data relating to this topic: http://bubblepedia.net.au/tiki-index.php and http://www.whocrashedtheeconomy.com
In the New York Times, Jamie Galbraith (son of J.K. Galbraith) noted that out of 15,000 professional economists in the U.S., about 10-12 correctly identified the housing bubble. Dean Baker http://www.cepr.net is the only economist I know of who has identified all three U.S. bubbles before they burst (Dot-Com, dollar, and housing bubbles) when all others didn’t recognize them. Galbraith pointed out that the vast majority of economists don’t realize these things because they “teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless.” This is essentially what Keen has been stating all along.
The most highly educated economists in the U.S. (Bernanke et al), from universities such as Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Chicago, etc, failed to see any of the three bubbles (though the dollar bubble was official Clinton economic policy crafted by Rubin – and economists complain about a current account deficit!?).
The vast majority of economists in Australia (and elsewhere) miss it because they believe in the religion on neoclassicism: markets are in equilibrium, “investors” have rational expectations (they all know every piece of information now and into the future, having compiled this store of knowledge at time = 0 – essentially they are gods), private debt is the outcome of rational contracts based upon such knowledge so the stock of private debt doesn’t matter in the least, etc. Current economic policy is based upon “a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless.”
various factors contribute to property prices to a “different” degree. According to some academic papers:
ease of credit contributes 70%
unemployment/share market contributes 25%
physical under supply contributes only 5%
So the so called “under supply” reason won’t stand a chance. That is also why certain cities get 20 price hike in a matter of months or a year during the boom years. There is no sudden physical shortage or big immigration during that short period of time. The only thing that has changed during that period is that banks loosened the criteria for lending (low loc allowed, higher LVR).
Daniel – do you have a reference for those numbers? Thanks.
I’ve just found this…. and you must read it!
Citigroup collapses! Banking Shutdown Possible
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/citigroup-collapses-banking-shutdown-possible-28325
carbonsink
The problem arises because of bad, no very bad data. The “occupancy rates” used by RE agents and governments considers a house “occupied” if it only has one occupant. A similarly stupid criterion is used for “unemployment”. Proportional data is needed and this could be derived from census data.
Many houses could house more people. Here there is a hysteris effect as prices rose people were prepared to pay more in expectation of capital gain and buy a McMansion for one. Now as prices fall people, fearing capital loss, will share accomodation reducing this demand.
I reflect on a time 20 years ater the onset of the Great Depression when my sister and I lived in a house with our parents, and my mother’s brother, together with our grandparents and our grandmother’s brother. Eight people in a three bedroom house with a build on “sunroom”. Today a similar house (much smaller than a McMansion} would house only one or two people.
Outback Oracle
Good to see you back.
Cheers
daniel, i don.t think confiscation is that big a risk. but its possibly to buy gold and store it smart without anyone knowing you have it. Gold is a speculation, but I don’t think it’s a very big downside. Maybe 4-500 dollars is the low side, but then the AUD will tumble against the dollar to, so in AUD, the downside is less, if the AUD rally again, so will gold, it’s really difficult for soft currencies to gain against gold I think, maybe the downside in soft currencies in regards to gold is 20 %. Yet, inflation is very low, and no big currency have tumbled, but I think that is possible. The dollar could get pretty devalued under Obama. Judging by paper reserves, compared to 1970, there is so much paper reserves compared to then, when gold was at 35, that the price today have to go to 5000 dollars to make it right in relation to that, but, I say, if you see the 35 as starting in 1933, and gold somewhat supressed in 1970, then it could go much higher than 5000 dollars to. In the last bullmarket gold went so high that the US gold reserves was worth about the same of the US debt, for that to happen now, 6000 dollars have to happen.
The foreign bond to gold in 32, was as mentioned around 20-50 cent on the dollar in 32, but after the devaluation by FDR of the dollar, then it got even worse than 20-50 cents in relation to gold.
GhostBabbage,
I don’t recall saying that we actually had to participate in this notional war. Perhaps we can get India and China to have a go at each other. They’re both over-populated. We’ll just sell the iron.
Daniel, I have just written a blog on confiscation specifically regarding Australia http://goldchat.blogspot.com/2008/11/australian-gold-confiscation.html that you may find useful.
This place just gets better & better.
Now, we have the famous Trond contributing as well. Trond, I have come across your idea of a tax on holding cash to promote investment (asset acquisition) through reading Roubini. Although Roubini did not attribute the source of the idea…
One practical question, however, is how to implement the tax. Cash, as it currently stands, is stateless. So, if I withdraw cash, how would you apply the tax ? One cannot identify the notes – they are stateless. Money in the mattress avoids the holding tax.
If politically feasible, the banks could apply a GST style tax, but one applied at the withdrawal of money, and which is credited back upon the use of the money.
I do believe this is a practical improvement on the implementation of such a novel tax, but it fits with the existing infrastructure currently available. Now, only for the politics…
Trond, good luck with your systems engineering and transport system, I think traffic management (defined very generally) is among the more fascinating areas around. And so much work to do in the future. And so much information to gather before remotely optimal suggestions can be made.
Furball
I think we are heading towards WW3 if this crisis get really bad. Politicians will print money, and if that don’t work, we will have the War.
I think it would be ironic. The imbecile generation of the baby boomers will take the youngest generation to fight a War for them after having robbed them of all wealth, and enjoyed the wealth the previous generation who fought in WW2 built up.
I was thinking about it. There are two trends in the market now. Obama is coming, optimism is back, I think that markets have bottomed out, permanently and will never go below 8000 on the dow, ever, in history. and Obama is choosing by my opinion an economic staff that by the market is considered to be the best of the best.
So options again.
1. We emerge fine from this, and have a 2003 like recovery. Then this will be like the panic of 1907, or the 73-74 bear market on extra high margin . That’s my main scenario. Because the central banks in this scenario will have to push extra hard on the “ketchup” bottle, and the US have plenty of stuff to fund, and there are so much cash around on the sidelines, inflation will seriously heat up, interest rates be to low, housing that to me looks like it have bottomed out (the steep part of the decline that matters to the economy), in the nineties inflation was to low for housing to start to rise very fast, but in this environment I think it could happen sooner than most think because housing is a hedge against inflation, creating the stagflation of the seventies. Bernanke were worried about this earlier this year. I think it’s a good thing to worry about.
2. Another option is a repeat of the ninties/twenties. Dot-infrastructure, 0 % lunatic boom, then you should see the time after 2000, only a correction in a bubble that have yet to see it’s full potential. In the eighties the dollar was super strong, but Reagen was really having huge fiscal deficit’s, however the dollar started from a low valuation, and the US economy was perceived to be very strong, creating a very strong dollar, and weaker commodity prices into 1985. The advisor’s of Obama are the strong dollar club.
3. Repeat of the 1930-s, with the US devaluing the dollar, collapse of world trade, protectionism, and increasing tensions between Russia, China and the US. Possible War with Iran, Resource wars between the super powers.
That’s the tragedy prudentsaver, and WW2 brought so much justice – no, just horrific injustices, witch hunting and scapegoating smokescreens while the real structural issues remained, as did the real culprits. Most of the boomers though have/are suffering with this also, with as example, lower and middle class wages eroding during the boom and pension funds evaporating.
The WFC is a debt issue, WW2 probably was too, and many have noted the dangers here. You would think with debt sticking out like a well developed melanoma we’d look at what debt really was for answers. But no, let’s look at anything but. Again just a guess, but seems ever since the gold smiths started the (banking) diddling of undermining economic wealth by loaning gold certificates for gold they didn’t have until there was more IOU’s then the economy could afford, we have had these crisis’s. That diddling is now called the money multiplier or more obscurely liquidity. Seems everything else is negotiable but the money multiplier is evolutionary – right, so is the mafia, so are these messes, perhaps we can evolve some more. Again, as the money multiplier actually takes from all our wealth (perhaps what inflation is), maybe profits from it therefore should be redistributed. Is the problem to looking, too many unwittingly having a finger in the cancer pie?
(As another David has just post on the next topic, I’ve add J)
Prudentsaver, I know what you mean. World War 1 and 2 casualties really shallowed out our gene pool.
prudentsaver, your also right, irony reigns supreme.
Furball…a tax on cash…i.e. a tax on savers????
They are already taxed. Real inflation say 9%. Interest say 5%. Tax on the interest at 33% leaves 3.3%. After tax real interest rate minus 5.7%. You can choose whatever numbers are appropriate at the time.
Now we arew going to tax them, what, another 10%, so real interest rate minus 6.2%.
The Western world is drowniong in debt and does not have savings. So the solution is to penalise savers even more than we do already and reward those who are profligate even more than we do already?
This is a solution?????
(posted this hours ago, but it didn’t turn up, however my next post has now, so assuming this one is lost, posting again)
That’s the tragedy prudentsaver, and WW2 brought so much justice – no, just horrific injustices, witch hunting and scapegoating smokescreens while the real structural issues remained, as did the real culprits. Most of the boomers though have/are suffering with this also, with as example, lower and middle class wages eroding during the boom and pension funds evaporating.
The WFC is a debt issue, WW2 probably was too, and many have noted the dangers here. You would think with debt sticking out like a well developed melanoma we’d look at what debt really was for answers. But no, let’s look at anything but. Again just a guess, but seems ever since the gold smiths started the (banking) diddling of undermining economic wealth by loaning gold certificates for gold they didn’t have until there was more IOU’s then the economy could afford, we have had these crises. That diddling is now called the money multiplier or more obscurely liquidity. Seems everything else is negotiable but the money multiplier is evolutionary – right, so is the mafia, so are these messes, perhaps we can evolve some more. Again, as the money multiplier actually takes from all our wealth (perhaps what inflation is), profiting from it maybe therefore should be redistributed. Is the problem to looking, too many unwittingly having a finger in the cancer pie?
(As another David has posted on the next topic, I’ve add J)
House prices in the US is already down 50 % many places in Nominal terms, like California. It’s happening so brutal. Because inflation have been very real, with real decline in real wages, I don’t think the drop in house prices will be as bad in nominal terms as in real terms, at least in the “soft currency countries” like Australia.
It’s nothing like the slow motion of Japan. Japan had their deflation while the rest of the world were booming along, with help from their liquidity caused by the yen carry trade. Now the global economy is imploding. The Baltic dry index, a leading economic indicator is down 93,8 % from the top set before the Olympics. The world is different in only 5 months.
Japan is at 0,3 %, and the NY FED have hold the interest rates at 0,25 % for weeks
The big question, is, will Japan boom now?
They are the only country with a sound banking system.
Will every country that can support it, push their interest rates to 0 % ? What will happen then? The Japanese created bubbles a lot of places because of their carry trade. End of the bubble era, or is it just getting a new monster bubble started fueled by low interest rates?
Outback Oracle, I enjoy your contribution, but please do make sure you read the context.
My response was itself a response to Trond and others not featured on this blog who are *seriously* worried about Deflation.
You, deflation, the thing this blog is about.
Within the following context and query:
* if interest rates are near to zero – pushing on a string
* and cash is the safest asset class, and the absence of lending is strangling activity in the economy – including valuable activity
* while other asset classes fall substantially in price – do remember this blog is about debt driven deflation
* then the question is: how to provide the correct incentives for cash to move through the economy again ?
Consumption may be inappropriate resource allocation, however, cash still needs to move otherwise the adjustment process would be horrendous…
One suggestion is negative interest rates.
However, they cannot be applied when cash is removed from an institution.
So, my suggestion of Holding Tax. With a GST infrastructure.
Now, we’ve paid a fortune in taxes (business & personal) over the last decade, and I still fill out the damn BAS form, so I do understand *exactly* about the drudge of day to day business and administration.
However, I’m addressing a specific concern in a specific way, and wondering whether other minds considering the deflation question would implement the “cost on holding cash” imposition that Roubini (someone who links to Keen’s website on rgemonitor.com ) suggests may become necessary in the USA.
So, to answer your query, yes, I am suggesting a tax on saving as a possible solution to a *particular* problem that is yet to arise, and which is currently confounding a few people around, if you read their blogs (calculatedrisk.blogspot; rgemonitor.com; brad setser’s; krugman’s, et al).
Please note I’ve taken other – valid – criticism in the best of possible spirit. I love to learn and I am happy to be wrong within that process. However, in being direct and fair, you’ve not yet added.
Looking forward to some comprehensive and constructive criticism.
Furball