This week, financial markets truly succumbed to The Panic. The US Dow Jones and S&P500 Indices lost 21%; Australia’s All Ordinaries fell 16%. “Buy and Hold” gave way to “Get Out At All Costs”.
When we look back with the eyes of history, the ninth day of the tenth month of 2008 will be the Black Thursday on which the world’s biggest ever speculative bubble finally burst.

The Stock Market Crash of 2008
Friday’s wild gyrations on Wall Street–which saw the Dow down as much as 700 points and up as much as 140, before closing down 128 points for another 1.5% loss on the day–are aftershocks from a financial earthquake driven by tectonic shifts that have a long, long way to go.
The US markets are down 21% for this week alone, and 45% from their peak; the Australian market has fallen 16% this week, and 42% from its peak. The only other stock market crash that compares with this is, of course, 1929.

Comparing the Crash of 2008--thus far--to 1929
The fall in 1929 itself was much more sudden–the fall from the market peak of 381 to Black Tuesday’s plunge to 230 points took just over a month, versus over a year this time. But the long grind to the bottom in the 1930s took three years (and the market didn’t revisit its 1929 peak until 1957). We may well face as long a wait before a new world financial order is established.
If we can gain our senses this time, we may be able to establish a financial system that serves capitalism rather than subverts it. We need, as Hyman Minsky argued, a good financial society in which the tendency of markets to indulge in speculative behavior is constrained.
It is obvious now that this will not be a deregulated market. But can it merely be a regulated one? Will regulations alone–bans on short selling, “Chinese Walls” between investment and merchant banking, quantitative regulation of lenders, etc.–be enough?
Clearly they were not this time round. That is the world constructed after the Great Depression (and its political aftermath, the Second World War) when Keynes ruled economics. It fell apart over time because, as Minsky put it, “stability is destabilizing”. A period of economic tranquility ushered in by drastic reductions in debt levels and firm regulation of financial markets leads us to forget the tragedies of The Bust, and to believe that markets are inherently stable.
This delusion was aided and abetted by the economics profession, which reacted to Keynes’s arguments about the inherent instability of markets like an immune system repelling a virus
Economics dreamt up such absurd notions as the “Efficient Markets Hypothesis” (which assumes that markets accurately predict future earnings and value shares on that basis), the Modigliani-Miller Hypothesis (that the most rational funding model for firms is 100% debt if interest payments are tax-deductible), and Rational Expectations (markets are always in long run general equilibrium, and government is impotent to affect real economic activity), and even invented asset market valuation concepts (such as the Black-Scholes Options Pricing Model) that were integral to the development of the derivatives market, the most destabilising force of all in modern capitalism.
Capitalism will survive this crisis, as it survived 1929; and it will be reformed, as was the sober post-WWII system after its profligate predecessor of the Roaring Twenties. But with speculation on assets still a potential path to individual riches–and with a drastically lower level of gearing, as the Great Depression level of debt unwound from its 215% of GDP peak in 1932 to a mere 45% at the start of 1945–the seeds for today’s repeat of the tragedy of speculation were sown.
We need instead to consider redesigning the financial system so that the currently inherent profitability of leveraged speculation on asset prices (when debt levels are low) is constrained.
I propose three such reforms, in full knowledge that they have Buckley’s of being implemented now–but hopefully they will be considered more seriously when this crisis reaches its second or third birthday.
These are:
- To redefine shares so that, as do corporate bonds, they have a defined expiry date at which time the issuing company repurchases them at their issue price;
- To impose “caveat emptor” on mortgage agreements, so that the lender’s security is limited if poor credit evaluations were done of the borrower’s capacity to meet the payment commitments in the contract (this will be further explained below); and
- To base house price valuations on a multiple of the imputed yearly rental of a property, rather than its potential resale price.
The intention of the first redefinition of capital assets (this is much more than a mere reform) is to put some effective ceiling on how high a share price can be expected to go, and to therefore force valuations to be based more on soberly estimated future earnings (of the sort Warren Buffett now does) than on the prospects of selling a share to a Greater Fool–which is the real basis of modern-day valuations.
The intention of the second, which may look paradoxical, is to impose the risk of reckless lending on the lender. Note that a sale of a house by the lender is called a MortgagEE sale–where the suffix indicates that the BUYER is selling the house. The borrower, on the other hand, is known as the MortgagOR–where the suffix indicates that the borrower is the SELLER.
What’s going on? Simple: in a mortgage contract, the lender BUYS a promise by the borrower to provide a stream of payments in the future in return for a sum of money now. The lender is the buyer.
What if the lender didn’t properly check the capacity of the borrower to meet this commitment? If we imposed the old Common Law principle of caveat emptor–”Buyer Beware”–the consequences would fall on the buyer. At the moment, lenders avoid the consequences of poor research into a borrower’s capacity to meet the payments by getting absolute security over the asset the borrower subsequently purchased with the lender’s payment.
Were caveat emptor imposed by the courts, I think that lenders would be rather less willing to indulge in the frenzy of irresponsible lending that has marked the end of this long speculative bubble.
The intention of the third reform is to base lending for house purchases on the income-generating capacity of the asset being bought, rather than as now on the resale price potential. If a multiple of, for example, ten times annual imputed rental income were the basis of valuation, then it would be more than possible for a landlord to borrow money to buy a property, and rent that property out at a profit.
This would establish a firm link between the valuation of a house, its rental income, and the maximum loan one could secure to buy it. It would forge a link between an assets valuation and its income earning potential–a link that is so fragile in today’s speculation driven market. It would also establish a class of wealthy agents–landlords–who have vested interest in keeping house prices and loan levels low.
With such reforms, there is at least some prospect that I will not have a successor writing of the follies of the Stock Market and Housing Market Bubbles of 2060. Without them or similarly effective structural alterations, with merely regulations as were imposed after the Great Depression, we will be here again some time in the future.
All that is, of course, for the future. The immediate problem is what to do now, if, as so many more expect than once did, this market crash is the prelude to the world’s second Great Depression.






October 11th, 2008 at 9:01 am
“Capitalism will survive this crisis, as it survived 1929″
There’s one very very big difference between 1929 and 2008 you seem oblivious to: in 1929, the world was awash with oil at 10c a barrel.
At below $90, and post Peak Oil, all the hard to get at oil projects on the drawing board will simply shut down. Russian oil companies are already crying out for THEIR bailout! Expect fuel shortages possibly even this year (in the US), but certainly next… right here in Australia! How do you expect the economy to pick up with energy shortages?
Mike.
October 11th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Steve
This is the most common-sense article I have ever read.
I might add another major issue with Banks is the greedy executives who need to be curtailed. They are the ones who have relaxed credit policy in their relentless pursuit of personal profits.
I am not sure you have written this in any of your articles, but I propose that banks become totally regulated by the state – reverse capitalism!
Mal
October 11th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Steve
I think that there is an error in your 2008 “Black Day” statistics in the second table .,,,
DJB
October 11th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Hi Steve,
Love the blog.
I agree wholeheartedly with your insights about the need to reform investor access to the assets themselves in order to limit the possibility of speculative bubbles.
With regard to regulating the debt financed investment in property you have not mentioned the ‘elephant’ in the room: negative gearing. It is the tax deductibility of interest payments on rental properties that acts as one of the major catalysts in distorting the mortgage market. Of course the effect of negative gearing is not limited to property markets (margin lending being another ill-fated example).
Then there is the question of capital gains discounts on investment properties. If negative gearing is akin to the ‘elephant’ in the room that is the housing bubble in Australia, then a 50% discount on capital gains for investment properties after 12 months is surely the ‘giraffe.’
Bob
October 11th, 2008 at 10:59 am
I think another thing that needs to be looked at are the incentive schemes for executives in the finance/banking industry. If a CEO etc. stands to make $50M/yr in bonuses due to good performance, then he/she should stand to lose a similar amount if performance is bad. At the moment, the incentive schemes seem to have all upside but no downside risk. And this just encourages them to take on too much risk and take the biggest gamble possible, because they don’t stand to lose much if it turns pear shaped.
October 11th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Disagree with your first proposal: When you own shares, don’t you own a portion of the business. Why would you set a time limit on owning businesses??
Wouldn’t that encourage mad ramping of the business value while you owned it leading to highly irresponsible management (driven by the current owners)?
Or lead to demands for large (unsustainable) dividends stripping the company of assests and the ability to employ people.
If you want to value houses at earnings multiples, why not companies.
This idea would drive companies off public markets and result in the only way people could invest their superannuation would be bonds or private equity funds.
I agree with your second point entirely.
The third point I can see how this would be a populist reaction, but I think it would lead to a ridiculous conclusion. How would you actually buy a house? If it is valued on a multiple of implied income then that means it is a set price. If you and three others wanted to purchase the house, who decides who buys it??? A lottery, some government body who decides where you should live?
I think a much simpler and less contrived system would be to impose higher capital reserve requirements on banks so there is less created credit, with less opportunity to create asset bubbles.
October 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
One of the biggest factors in Housing affordability spiralling out of control (beyond the already well-elaborated factors of high demand (over 1,000 new people settle in Victoria each week don’t they?) and a lack of building to make-up the short fall, plus ridiculous laws on negative-gearing that allow investors to purchase multiple properties etc) is the artificial raising of the ‘market value’ caused by dodgey real-estate auctioneer tactics and selfish greedy vendors(sellers). The second point I may come back to later, but for now- I encourage comment on the former- that of auctioneer’s tactics- and most specifically that of the Vendor’s Bid!
It is a practice that truly irritates me. It’s legitimacy in law now, is simply astounding. Steve’s point-of-views are well known on household debt- the idea of speculating on investments rather than it’s true actual standing market value etc, can be transposed to the point I make about Vendor Bidding.
The Vendor’s Bid is the new dummy bid, except it is even worse because it is now in law that it is OK & legimate! Picture a house auction stalling, so the Auctioneer announces he is placing a Vendor’s Bid, when there are no further bids- he/she then pleads with interested parties in the crowd to make a bid (obviously above his vendor’s bid) so they can “get the opportunity to be the first to negotiate” after the property has been passed in. Of course then someone bids, the property is then passed in, and the sale is negotiated in private (and here’s the important part) from the starting point of the last bid. An amount that isn’t the market price, rather a figure that is close to what the vendor and agent desire.
So the value of the property is artifically inflated. This practice is being replicated as we speak all around the country.
Play it out in example figures: bidding stalls at $360,000, agent announces vendor bid of $400,000- he justifys this by saying “we advertised the property at $400k+ so it shouldn’t come as a surprise”, of course some poor sap puts in a bid of $405,000- the property then takes off again, because we are all so desparate because are increasing- “if we don’t get in now- we never wil – fear fear fear” or the property is passed in for it to be negotiated at an even higher price- so we are in territory now of $420,000 / $430,000 etc, when in fact the auction & therefore TRUE market value, before it was artifically inflated (by the vendor’s bid) was actually $360,000 – that is an effective increase above true market value of $70,000 – some 18%!
Is it any wonder this country is in debt, when our law-makers make this sort of practice legal?
October 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Actually 1970 to 1974 saw the domestic market drop 61% and take 4-years to hit bottom, somewhat worse than the 1929 – 1932 experience you outline here.
October 11th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
…… of course the final eventual (artifically inflated) sale price can then be used by the agent to value subsequent properties that go on the market – “well the place around the corner in Gilbert St made $445,000 3 weeks ago, so …..” and on and on the inflated cycle continues…
October 11th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
We can call for the reform another thing that distorts the mortgage market – mortgage insurance. Get rid of it.
Mortgage insurance is a watered down CDS aimed at the retail market. And we all know how successful those have been in reigning in debt levels!
October 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Great article!
Just a thought, but what would happen if the target inflation rate that the RBA is mandated to manage percent also took into account asset inflation?
E.g. Inflation doesn’t just count how many litres of milk / petrol / bread the $ will buy, but also includes how many houses / equities / bonds it will buy?
I’m sure this is a dumb question, but as someone without much economics knowledge, its something I’ve been thinking about.
October 11th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Three great suggestions, Steve. I can see how each would work to prevent bubbles. I would add that, in relation to housing, it would be advantageous if the policy framework was also adjusted to encourage large scale investors to invest in residential property, similarly to the situation in central Europe. Having rented there, give me that situation any day! (Germans and French tenants renovate before moving in because they’re going to be there for 10 years or more – none of this “can I please put a nail in the wall to hang my wedding photo”.)
I guess that the suggestions you propose are tending towards that in any case since a lot of small scale investors will not want to invest in housing if the return is (rightly in my view) slightly above that for good quality bonds. On the other hand, investment by our superannuation funds would open the asset class up to virtually all Australians!
October 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
With such measures in place, how will King Henry and Co be able to amass the largess of personal wealth and parachutes? And these are the people who are steering the financial system.
Witness the original Paulson plan which aimed to preserve extraordinary salaries and parachutes and yet absolve King Henry from oversight.
Governments should wake up to the idea that self-regulation does not work. You need the coppers to catch the thieves. Self-regulated thievery evolves sooner or later into the mafia.
The crisis is good in the sense that it provides the catalyst for change, which would otherwise not have happened.
October 11th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Oh BTW Steve, thought you might be interested to know that Michael Matusik was on ABC radio in Brisbane this morning (Weekends with Warren Bolland). Not surprisingly, he was extremely critical of your comments on the 7.30 Report. His arguments, of course, were very weak, but I guess they were aimed at damage control. (I wonder whether his regular segment is a sponsored session??) I am hoping that he will participate in the online debate on Wednesday – I look forward to pulling him up on his “arguments” – but perhaps he will shy away from genuine debate! Actually, Warren Bolland asked him whether he had written to discuss his viewpoint with you – he stumbled over his “no”, but then suggested that your university library might subscribe to his newsletter as “some university libraries subscribe” (got the old plug in!)
October 11th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Steve I have been following your comments on the housing bubble for time with interest. One area I would like you to comment on is the replacement cost of housing. The drop in value that you are predicting will essentially result in less building unless cost of developing land and cost of building falls or the market catches up.(which you consider unlikely). Surely the replacement cost will prop up values to an extent. Or do you think construction costs will adjust downwards?
October 11th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
I can’t argue the first two points. They seem sensible.If you consider point three, we will all be living in bare high rise towers like Russia or industrial UK or Housing Commission in any big OZ city. The underlying cause of housing price inflation is zoning, regulation of new land releases and “developers contributions”ie you start off with more than the cost of the actual structure and land on which it stands, built into the starting price. As well as that it is like motor vehicles, the house you get now is a much “better” house than you got twenty or fifty years ago.
October 11th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Barr, the cost of land is now more than half of the cost of housing in Sydney. Part of this is the councils need to earn revenue from developers rather than rates. There is no reason for housing prices not to move a lot closer to what the inflation adjusted value should be.
Another improvement to the finance system would be better banking regulation. BASEL II seems to be a failure, it needs things like a minimum of 20% deposit on all housing loans for residential and more for investment properties.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Steve, I am afraid that your solutions will only lead to more of the same. You miss a fundamental flaw of the current system:
Exponential growth forever in a closed system (the earth) can only lead to collapse. The rate of growth since the discovery of fossil fuel is staggering (around 850 Million peoples on earth then, now more than 6 Billion, the last billion only took 13 years). This growth has been fueled by cheap energy (mostly oil) the advent of peak oil mean that energy ain’t gonna be cheap anymore, therefore growth will grind to a halt, but the current financial system need growth to stay alive.
October 11th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Steve,
As much as I love your work, and as much as I think this article is technically correct, I would like to add that I doubt your regulatory proposals (or any other worthwhile proposals) will help stop the ‘next bubble’.
The reason is simple: The human race is doomed to repeat history. Let me explain it another way, by example:
The Great Depression was a financial fiasco on a grand scale with a great many similarities to the crisis we’re experiencing now. Predictably (and reasonably), post-crash everyone ensured that tight controls on the world of finance were implemented. Great. Excellent. But as the generation that experienced the Great Depression left the halls of authority and died off, the next generation comes along, thinking it knows everything and the world is it’s oyster. Things are going profitably – thanks, in no small part, to prudent regulations – but the credit is given to self rather than those that laid the foundation before. Thus begins to creep in the notions like ‘this is different this time (or welcome to the ‘New World Order’)’ and ‘the old way of doing things only hold us back’ and eventually enough people agree to remove the very controls that minimise bubbles. The bubble now has fewer restrictions and things continue to accelerate onwards and upwards at an ever-increasing pace. Restrictions are loosened further because ‘everything is quite clearly going very well, thank you, just look around!’.
Then…. “POP”
Rinse and repeat.
Thus is born, I believe, one of the immutable laws of the universe:
“regulations are created when they are least necessary and removed when they are most necessary.”
1929 was proof, as were other crises since then. You didn’t have to force someone in 1935 by regulation to avoid leverage – 1929 was still burned in their brain.
2008 – rinse and repeat.
Having said all that, though, financial reform is simply the ‘right’ thing to do, whether or not our ancestors will somehow lift themselves out of the cycle.
October 11th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Hi Steve!
Have you taken a look at Islamic finance? The SMH as an article, Islamic finance rides the storm.
There is no ‘interest’ in Islamic finance, but they call it by another name- ‘profit sharing.’ There’s some interesting things in that article,
October 12th, 2008 at 12:27 am
How about starting with sound money? Seems to me that the problems begin and end with government meddling with the money supply. Or is it coincidental that the enormous credit expansion (which is now a bursting bubble) began in the ’70’s, around the same time Nixon severed the last remaining US$ ties to gold?
October 12th, 2008 at 1:22 am
Some variations on those ideas:
1. Companies to receive a commission every time their shares are sold.
2. Shares to have a reset date(s), on which the company can buy them back for the shareholder’s equity per share (rather than issue price)
3. Complying mortgage is 25% down, payments 38% of take home pay, and is eligible for 30 years & RMBS. All others carry regulatory terms making them less profitable for banks and originators.
4. “Unearned” capital gain indexed, with excess subject to tax at maximum marginal rate.
Keep up the good work!
October 12th, 2008 at 8:35 am
“Humanity’s greatest weakness is its inability to understand the exponential function”. Pr Albert Bartlett.
I’m flummoxed at posters’ blind faith in the salvation of Capitalism. What we are experiencing here is the collapse of Capitalism, the end of growth.
The growth we have endured for the past 100 or so years was entirely due to ever increasing amounts of ever cheaper and ever better quality energy sources. Coal, then oil and gas, and even nuclear.
Unfortunately, it’s all over bar the shouting. All the cheap oil is gone, ditto for coal and Uranium. Gas is next.
With oil at ~$77, it’s highly likely Venezuela and Iran will stop pumping. As will Vietnam and Malaysia, our two largest suppliers of oil. Canada’s tar sands are also on the verge of closing down, unviable at less than $80.
Once the peak of production has been passed (2005) all that remains is very, very expensive energy. Like solar.
Without growth, the interest on all outstanding debts cannot be repaid: economics 101, I would have thought!
There is only one solution out of this mess: forgive ALL debts, start from scratch, and expend whatever energy and money we have left to rebuild a simpler and sustainable society.
As Richard Heinberg ably pointed out in his book of the same title, “The Party’s Over”.
Go to http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse If you already know we have been lied to about inflation and our money supply, I suggest you go straight to chapters 17 and 18….. I can only surmise the posters here know SOMETHING of economics!
Mike.
October 12th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Why the dollar rally is going to fail
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/why-dollar-rally-going-fail/7094
Saturday, October 11, 2008, 3:25 pm, by cmartenson
Through all of this crisis, as regulators and politicians and bureaucrats have labored to inject needed funds back into failing financial institutions, few are asking the harder questions.
Such as:
* Does this crisis represent something deeper like a general and unavoidable failure of our entire monetary system?
* Are the failing institutions worth saving?
* Will it work?
* Can the government afford it?
I understand the desire and urgency to “get something done” but I worry that a failed effort will be worse than no effort. Why? Because our monetary system is, to put it bluntly, somewhat of a Ponzi scheme and therefore depends more thoroughly on trust than other systems.
After all, when a currency is backed only by taxing authority it is critical that the legitimacy and omnipotence of that authority not be called into question.
People are beginning to ask questions.
This next article is a real doozy and directly calls into question the last two questions I posed above; will the rescue efforts work and can the government afford it?
Quote:
The 2009 budget deficit could be close to $2 trillion, or 12.5 percent of gross domestic product, more than twice the record of 6 percent set in 1983, according to David Greenlaw, Morgan Stanley’s chief economist. Two weeks ago, budget analysts said the measures might push deficit to as much as $1.5 trillion.
Link (Bloomberg)
Back in August, which seems like another lifetime ago already, I was calling for a US government deficit of between $1 trillion and $2 trillion and leaning towards the high end of that range. Now it seems that others are ready to publicly admit to the same range.
This is the most remarkable of all the possible data because it is a staggering proposition. More than twice the old record. 12.5% of GDP.
For the boom years of 2003-2007 the US was borrowing 80% of the world’s entire pool of savings to fund its deficits and excess consumption. We borrowed between $600 billion and $800 billion during those years.
Now, in a world of declining prospects, the US finds itself in need of 200% to 300% more than that. While I recognize that people tend to save more during downturns, there are also fewer profits to save so we might expect that the “plan” at this point is for the US to assume it can borrow more than 200% of next year’s savings. The entire world’s savings.
I flat out do not think this is a workable plan.
There is no way to pull this off legitimately. Which leaves us with the illegitimate option – direct money printing by the Fed. I am sorry to say, but I simply do not see any other mechanism by which the needed amounts can be secured by the US government.
This means the dollar is at severe risk of decline and certainly borrowing costs (interest rates) are going to rise which will only exacerbate the borrowing needs as higher interest rates enforce higher payments. The first signs are appearing that this dynamic is already in play (from the same article as above):
Quote:
That means a lot more borrowing by Treasury, which will push up interest rates, said Greenlaw. “The Treasury’s going to be ramping up supply dramatically over the course of coming months to meet this enormous federal budget obligation,” Greenlaw told Bloomberg this week. “The supply will trigger some elevation in yields.”
Treasuries have fallen the past four days even as stocks sank, a sign investors are preparing for bigger U.S. government borrowing.
Now the reason this gets really dicey is that the US government, in its infinite wisdom, has been engaged in a form of ARM financing of its own. Over the past decade as interest rates have fallen the US Government has slowly turned more and more to shorter duration t-bills as the means of financing its operations. This made sense, in a short-term way, as the t-bills came with the lowest interest rates and hence the lowest interest costs.
But, and here’s the big thing, these t-bills need to be “rolled over” every time they come due. This means that if a billion dollars of t-bills mature, a fresh offering of another billion dollars must be made.
The total amount of t-bills now stands at $1.48 trillion meaning that this is another $1.48 trillion that MUST be “rolled over” twice a year, at a minimum, but more likely three times when we average out the three and six month issues. That is, 28% of all outstanding “debt held by the public” is basically an adjustable rate mortgage that needs to be refi-ed three times per year.
Plus there’s whatever Treasury notes and bonds and TIPS are coming due as well, and that pool is $3.7 trillion in size so we might guess that $0.5 trillion of those come due in any given year.
So even as the US is seeking to borrow another $1.5 – $2 trillion this next year, there’s another $1.5 – $2 trillion that must be “rolled over” in open market auctions. What this means is that somebody has to willingly buy those bills and bonds when they come due. If not, then we could face the mother of all catastrophes, the failure of a US government debt auction which also goes by the very unpleasant name of “sovereign default”.
This will not happen, though, because the Fed would almost certainly step in and buy those bonds. A US government default would basically light up the “tilt” indicator on the global financial game so it would be avoided at any cost. The Fed, of course, would use its magic checkbook and create the needed money out of thin air, the most inflationary of all possible actions.
I just don’t think that there’s $3 to $4 trillion of extra cash lying around the world right now ready to be deployed in the US. So there it is, that’s the reason I think the recent dollar rally is the biggest suckers rally of the year.
This is certainly part of the G7 discussions that are ongoing right now. Each country has enormous borrowing needs of its own and I can only imagine how tense the situation is in that room right now. Germany must be having a fit right about now seeing that the US is actively lobbying to unleash the inflationary monsters.
So, to answer my own questions:
* This crisis represents a generalized failure of the monetary system and the sooner we get to that conclusion the sooner we can begin to talk about solutions that treat the cause, not the symptoms.
* The failed institutions are not worth saving because they represent a model that is now broken beyond repair.
* The current bailout plan cannot work because it is too small and it is directed at the symptoms not the causes.
* The government cannot afford the cure. But even worse, the US government is already insolvent (when factoring in entitlement liabilities) and nobody is asking how borrowing an additional 12.5% of GDP does anything but make that problem worse.
October 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Cap executive wages at a rational mutiple of the lowest company employee wage.
All executive options schemes (leverage long rewards) require a matching (leverage short clawback) must be minimum 10 years for payout
Fix house lending to e/y ratios (Steve’s idea)
All derivatives (risk transfer contracts) require an insurance licence and a matching physical asset reserve with massive statutory regulation
No leverage ratio on any financial instrument or institution to exceed 10X
October 12th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I can’t think my way out of a paper bag on some of this, but I tentatively agree with ‘Miner01′ regarding your idea for containing house price speculation. Wouldn’t the price of a house be effectively fixed, so who would decide who got it? Wouldn’t the bank then prefer to lend to the investor buyer , because they would have a reasonable chance of getting rental income from someone or other to pay the mortgage, whereas the owner-occupier purchaser might lose their job. Also, landlords, could have an incentive to jack up rents to breaking point,to not only make their income outstrip the actual mortgage repayments, but to try to engineer a capital gain based on a new multiple of rental returns. Most of our housing stock doesn’t look good to me for much long-term landlordism. Individual houses on blocks need a fair bit of attention. I’ve looked at enough dismal rentals, with cheap add-ons that are only going downhill and raggedy gardens hardly cared about. You can walk about a suburb and visually mark out a lot of the rentals, I think.
October 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Thanks again for the debate; I am too busy to follow it closely, but I do appreciate the posts, and frequently there are ideas suggested here that I build on in my work.
Just on the global warming/peak oil/exponential growth issue raised by a few posters; I’m well aware of those, and will be writing a book on this topic with two experts on the first two shortly for the Centre for Policy Development (www.cpd.org.au).
I also emphasise that my contributions on this blog, unless noted otherwise, deliberately don’t factor in those three issues.
The reason is simple: this crisis is bad enough on its own! Including the impact of global warming and peak oil in every post would dramatically complicate my narrative.
On the house price issue, no the price wouldn’t be fixed–only the loan you could get for it would be. If you really wanted a particular house, you’d have to fork out more of your own money to get it–not money you borrowed.
I realise that there would be difficulties in policing this, but that would to some extent be taken care of via the “caveat emptor” suggestion–any lender who was foolish enough to not check on this issue would lose any security over the loan.
October 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Steve, great stuff. A couple of thoughts:
1) Our debt figures may not be directly comparable with 1929 due to constraints on superannuation. If superannuation could be applied to pay down home loans, then our total debt to GDP figure would likely shrink. It would terrific if you could make some accounting for this.
2) It is possible to envisage a scenario whereby debt is reduced without altering demand. As a nonsense example, lets say people borrowed money to purchase artworks from foreigners. If they sold those artworks back to foreigners and paid down the debt then this represents no effect on the local demand. There are countless other increasingly realistic and potentially important examples one can dream up. So perhaps it would be better to examine the likely marginal effect on eliminating debt growth on local demand.
Neither of these things will change the your general assertion, but addressing them will make your assertions more defensible.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I would like to hear from anybody interested in taking the debate on housing more to the political arena. I am contemplating initiating a political party – ‘homes4aussies’ or another name. I may also shift the 200m that I need to be in the Griffith electorate to run against PM Rudd, either in a new party or as an independent. Anybody interested in persuing the idea of a political party on the platform of “affordable housing for all Australians” can go to my website and send me an email. Thank you.
October 12th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
What global warming?
It’s only another drought Down Under.
You’re not a “believer” are you.
Tell me it isn’t so Steve.
October 12th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
My understanding of the Great Depression was that Australia was particularly hard hit because of our reliance on exports and commodity prices which of course put massive downward pressure on wages and reduced our GDP etc. I know that mining makes up only 3% (??) of the labour market but in our small part of the world, the loss of the mine would mean a great deal more pain for the businesses and communities that rely upon the local distribution of its ‘wealth’! This loss combined with our huge national personal debt sounds like disaster to me. With a prediction of a slow down in the demand from China (eg cancellation of iron ore orders for 2009 etc) what are the prospects for us NOT ending up in Depression a la 1930?
October 12th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
A new party? To do what exactly? This mire has no solution…. don’t waste your time.
We need a clean slate with brand new ways of doing things, and I’m not at all happy to let G W Bush and co do it.
How about this for getting things started: Pick a date (Oct 19 is the 21st anniversary of the ‘87 crash) and let the nation decide that as of that date nobody makes any more payments on their debts. Forever.
October 12th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I’m not a zenophobe.
All Australians would be well served to check the 2 month exchange rate movements AUD/SGD AUD/HKD AUD/YEN AUD/MYR
These have jumped roughly 20 – 40%
This strongly indicates to me that during the past 8 years the AUD was being bought by ‘Capital Flows’ not trade flows and now these capital flows are being massively reversed.
This external speculative capital flow (with very cheap interest rate funding) that has been competeing at, and winning at ‘All Australian Asset Market Auctions’ (Property & Shares) is pouring out again.
I predict this will cause a flood of houses to come onto the market…
It wil be good for those who waited, saved their money and buy what they can afford.
It will be a train crash for those who borrowed and stretched too far to win ‘the sale’ against this casino money.
October 12th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
“It will be good for those who waited, saved their money and buy what they can afford.”
What…. all two of them?
October 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Mike,
I know of at least three… myself included. I agree with you, though – savers are a rare breed. I’m 35, but I’m fairly certain that one of the new schedule on immunisations that the younger generations received was actually a debt-whoring chemical invented by DuPont (just joking about the chemical, not about the debt-whoring).
My cash gun is locked and loaded, but I won’t be pulling that trigger for years, I reckon. Similar to Steve’s predictions, I think a 50% to 75% fall in house prices is on the cards.
October 12th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Steve
I’ve got a signed copy of your Debunking Economics book from a talk in Berkelouw’s Leichhardt many years ago. I’m very happy about this.
I bought it for around $25 – $35, and since all assets appreciate at the rate of around 5% – 7% per year, then I anticipate that a sale of the book could help with the mortgage what do you think ?
Also, I found this list on the internet. Last week was terrible for those with Stock Holdings, however, it seems that 40% drops have occurred quite a few times. Please consider:
“THE TEN WORST BEAR MARKETS
OF MODERN TIMES IN THE US
10th Worst Stock Market Crash:
1/15/2000 – 10/9/2002
Total Days: 999
Starting DJIA: 11,792.98
Ending DJIA: 7,286.27
Total Loss: -37.8%
9th Worst Stock Market Crash:
11/21/1916 – 12/19/1917
Total Days: 393
Starting DJIA: 110.15
Ending DJIA: 65.95
Total Loss: -40.1%
8th Worst Stock Market Crash:
9/12/1939 – 4/28/1942
Total Days: 959
Starting DJIA: 155.92 Ending DJIA: 92.92
Total Loss: -40.4%
7th Worst Stock Market Crash:
1/11/1973 – 12/06/1974
Total Days: 694
Starting DJIA: 1051.70
Ending DJIA: 577.60
Total Loss: -45.1%
6th Worst Stock Market Crash:
6/17/1901 – 11/9/1903
Total Days: 875
Starting DJIA: 57.33
Ending DJIA: 30.88
Total Loss: -46.1%
The 5th worst stock market crash:
11/3/1919 – 8/24/1921
Total Days: 660
Starting DJIA: 119.62
Ending DJIA: 63.9
Total Loss: -46.6%
4th Worst Stock Market Crash :
9/3/1929 – 11/13/1929
Total Days: 71
Starting DJIA: 381.17
Ending DJIA: 198.69
Total Loss: -47.9%
[comment also copied]
This was, and still remains, the shortest bear
market and it was the now infamous “Crash of
‘29.” Few realised how short it was however; a
mere two and one half months really. It was,
however, a truly deadly one for investors saw
half their money disappear in those two and one
half months.
3rd Worst Stock Market Crash:
1/19/1906 – 11/15/1907
Total Days: 665
Starting DJIA: 75.45
Ending DJIA: 38.83 Total Loss: -48.5%
This was the “Panic of 1907″ and it was the
market collapse that ushered in The Fed a few
years later.
2nd Worst Stock Market Crash:
3/10/1937 – 3/31/1938
Total Days: 386
Starting DJIA: 194.40
Ending DJIA: 98.95
Total Loss: -49.1%
Finally, The Worst Stock Market Crash Ever:
4/17/1930 – 7/8/1932
Total Days: 813
Starting DJIA: 294.07
Ending DJIA: 41.22
Total Loss: -86.0%
[comment also copied]
This last one is truly the “grand daddy” of all bear markets. We must remember that following “The Crash” of ‘29, stock prices rallied quite sharply in what was one of the most violent bull runs of history. Prices rose 48% from their lows made in mid-November of ‘29 to their highs in March of ‘30. From there, it was a relentless, mauling, devastating new bear market brought on by the idiocy of Smoot-Hawley and the even greatly lunacy of the Federal Reserve Bank’s decision to drain liquidity from the system following Treasury Sec’y Andrew Mellon’s urging that the liquidity created by the selling of stocks the previous autumn be withdrawn from the banking system, fearing inflation! When this most serious bear market had finally run its course, those involved lost 86% of their capital. Put another way, if you had put $1000 in the market at the start of the ‘30 bear market it would be down just a bit more than $100 by July 8th, 1932. Remember, the “math” begins to work relentlessly against you after that, for in order to recover the losses incurred the market would have to go up a bit more than 800%. Eventually the market did precisely that, but it took one score and two years to accomplish the task. Being a long term investor is one thing; holding a portfolio for twenty two years, hoping that it will come back, is way beyond that… it is idiocy. Oh, and “Value” existed all along the way down too, we might add! That “Value” was eventually realised, but many investors had passed on to greener pastures by then we are told.”
October 13th, 2008 at 12:01 am
@Steve,
1. How do these shares differ from corporate bonds? Seems like you’d be outlawing share ownership.
2. Agreed. Isn’t there some way for people to “blame the bank” now and not get foreclosed on?
3. I looked at a 10x multiple and it makes home very very cheap. Later I realised you didn’t mean the home price so much as the amount that could be borrowed.
@brett of homes4aussies,
I don’t think that home affordability will be a big problem in a few years time. I wouldn’t bother with a single issue political party. I am finding Austrian Economics and (American) Libertarian thoughts quite attractive. One of the main ideas there seems to be a return to “sound money” (probably a gold standard of some sort). I worry that these guys are all just gold bugs though
.
@Steve, I’d love to hear your views on Austrian Economics and problems of the gold standard if you have time to post on it.
@Mike Stasse, wouldn’t having never have to pay your debt back be unfair to lenders and savers? I am with johnboy, I am a (37 y.o) saver. I still don’t think it will be time to buy for 3-4 years or more.
I didn’t understanding manias when this all started. All I knew was that property was overpriced. Had I understood manias I could have bought into the boom and sold before the end (some did or so I’ve heard). It’s been difficult to refuse to buy property and live in rentals all these years. I am hoping for my “day of reward” sometime soon.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:10 am
… won’t the coming property downturn make Rudd’s First Home Saver Account (FHSA) program look foolish? This program is set to give away govt/public money to help fuel a dying property market.
I guess the previous govts program with the First Home Owner’s Grant (FHOG) helped to fuel this boom. Another foolish but popular measure.
Given that both major political parties have made these popular but foolish moves to throw public money onto the housing bubble, how can we prevent this in the future? Do we need a new party or better economically educated Australians? Perhaps economics should be mandatory in high school.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Poor Kevin Rudd, he got handed a poison chalice.
He/we had to back all deposits and all foreign bank debt or the Australian financial system was going to suffer additional collateral damage.
Australia’s lucky we have a floating exchange rate.
We will have the mother of all housing corrections, muddle through a massive recession, high unemployment, and a trashed currency.
We already have the ‘Stag’ now we get the ‘flation’ if we are real lucky.
Our northern ‘casino’ neighbours who vainly intervein in exchange rates etc will suffer the full impact of the depressions they deserve for speculating in both assets and currencies.
For what its worth…
It was excellent to see the RBA book massive profits trading the AUD against our ‘casino’ neighbours.
October 13th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Contrarian
The article on Islamic finance was very interesting. Although some people who’ve been brought up to think that easy wealth driven by asset price speculation (read: “expecting another sucker to pay more for something than you did”) may find it a huge restriction on their activities, I think we should be looking at all alternative financial and taxation models. What we need is a system that minimizes debt and speculation and encourages savings and investment in productive assets.
Cheers
October 13th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Excellent 3 points.
Would like to add the following interim measures:
Revisit elements of our tax system that have encouraged investors to go further into debt than would have otherwise been possible.
I refer here to Interest-only loans and negative gearing.
This is a golden opportunity to at least get rid of Interest only loans once and for all from the residential property market. Who would use such loans now as the property market is about to go into freefall?
Negative gearing may be harder to phase out, if not impossible. However, even talk of phasing out of negative gearing would send a message that debt levels need to be moderated.
October 13th, 2008 at 10:29 am
So you’re the guy who is selling his house and moving into rental accommodation.
So debt is a social evil? Do you think risk can be eliminated? Without risk my friend and the people who take them, society would stagnate and return to the lowest common denominator. Riskless society? Doesn’t exist!
While you’re about it I suggest you stock up on food for a few years. Why rent, surely a cave would be more of your elk; to follow your logic.
Your type are 2 a penny; prophets of doom but I’m afraid the reality is you’re suffering high flights of delusion.
October 13th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
In fact Geoff,
I don’t think debt is a social evil. Debt to provide companies with working capital, and to finance investment above their level of retained earnings, is an essential part of a well functioning market economy.
Risk has to exist, and some of those firms will fail, and some of the investments will turn out to be unprofitable. But progress comes precisely from taking those risks, as Schumpeter cogently argued decades ago.
But debt to finance speculation on rising asset prices is a social evil, and that’s the one I’m railing against. The delusion, I believe, lies with those who thought the game of leveraged speculation on asset prices would be a winning game forever.
By the way, the property was passed in. Given the price I was offered ($25K below that of an identical flat in this block sold a month ago that lacks my view), I’d rather take the slow route to debt repayment by increasing my payments, than the fast route of sale and rental. After all, I’m not concerned about my job security for the future.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
To answer the questions: 1) What would a political party with a platform of “affordable housing for ALL Australians” do exactly and 2) would it be worth the “bother” I provide the following.
Our country is at a critical juncture. Over the next few years our financial system will be re-engineered.
I consider that the current crisis is more about a lack of confidence in the entire system, not just the financial system. The person on the street has stood by for years sceptical that the political and business elites are scratching each others’ back in a quest for power and wealth. Surveys regularly show that respect for politicians has dwindled and is on a par with second hand car salesmen.
People have little faith that measures that politicians arrive at through this crisis have the aim of assisting the “average” person – rather they suspect they have the aim of continuing the gravy train for the elites. And that perception is aided by the fact that key personnel have obvious conflicts – eg Henry Paulson was CEO of Goldman Sachs through the creation of the credit bubble and gained enormously financially himself from it!
There is a critical shortage of quality political opposition in Australia. The opposition leader himself has similar conflicts to Paulson having worked for the same investment bank. And certainly both major parties in Australia appear to be singing from the same hymn book.
Rudd has spent the first 8 months in office playing it safe – protecting a massive lead in the polls rather than setting out an agenda. Honestly, where does he stand on housing? Immediately he indicated he was concerned about homelessness, but does he acknowledge the link between the housing bubble and homelessness? Is he going to do something to solve the housing affordability crisis? Some of his plans are quite good – but they are just nibbling away at the edges. (If you get the Courier Mail, read the story of Sara Hughes on P5 of today’s edition and you will understand my urgency in getting something done!)
Last year Ken Henry stood up to be counted in an election year. He highlighted that there was significant potential for poor policy in an election with a mature government.
Periods of crisis can bring out the best in governments, but it can also bring out the worst with the “cover” provided allowing the introduction of very poor policy. All we need to do is think back to the justification of the Iraq war by the 9\11 terrorist attacks.
My concern is that we really don’t know where Rudd stands on housing. But indications are increasing that he is going to attempt to put a floor under prices at levels which Steve and others have shown to be ridiculously high (in fact, in a massive bubble). And basic commense suggests this to true. If they achieve this, it will be to the detriment of A LOT of Australians, young and old, and future generations. I suspect that they will fail regardless of what they do – but not before an enormous amount of taxpayer funds have been wasted – thrown after bad money!
At this critical juncture – where there is a paucity of quality opposition – I think it is important that leaders rise up out of the community and play the important role that the democrats once did – “keeping the bastards honest”. (The Greens seem to be failing in any attempts to add balance – I haven’t seen Bob Brown on TV in months!)
Many are doing that, not the least Steve with his media appearances and this blog.
Perhaps we could be of greater service to our community if we became more organised and less disparate.
So what would a political party do? We would advocate that to arrest the crisis of confidence in the system, people such as Steve – people who do not carry political and\or business baggage (conflicts) – be given a more central role in responding to this crisis and in constructing the post-credit bubble financial system. (That is not to disrespect the efforts of Ken Henry, Glen Stevens, and many other bureaucrats whom I admire enormously – but we all know that they, along with industry economists, do not have the freedom of action – and possibly thought [I'm specifically thinking of Paulson] – as academics.)
And on housing specifically, I would say that the framework needs to be remodelled towards far greater involvement by large scale investors (eg superannuation funds). Small scale investors’ DIRECT involvement in the provision of housing should be minimised due to their over reliance on capital gains (of course that would involve getting rid of CGT concessions and negative gearing, if not on all investments, then singling out housing as a “special” asset which should not be used for speculative purposes). Moreover, such a move would open up the asset class to ALL Australians with a superannuation account.
Now I realise that the National Rental Affordability Scheme could be interpreted as a start. But the government is so timid about its introduction. (I would also say that I am a fan of the FHSAs, AS LONG AS THE ADJUSTMENTS ARE MADE TO REDUCE SMALL SCALE INVESTOR DEMAND TO PREVENT THEM FROM PROFITING WHILST YOUNG AUSSIES LOSE OUT AGAIN BY PAYING MORE FOR A HOUSE THEN THEY OTHERWISE WOULD!)
To conclude, I am open minded enough to think that Rudd may have these adjustments in mind. Perhaps he needs others to lay the political backdrop to allow such changes. But perhaps he will go the other way and introduce even more distortions making the housing markets even less efficient to the detriment of Australians in the long run.
I just think this is a critical time to stand up and be counted.
I think it is best if any further discussion on the topic of starting a political party be carried over to my website. I will post a copy of this post there. But I will be happy to debate the the specific issues of developing a better, fairer housing market here on Steve’s blog.
October 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
No.
But lets get the basic facts right.
Debt is an IOU
An IOU (debt) from person X is an IOU (asset) for person Y
An IOU (debt) is repayable in full with some more IOU’s, goods, services or assets.
Risk is not understanding what your doing
In the IOU business, risk is when you accept an IOU at the wrong price.
When both the IOU’s and the Asset’s have both been sold at the wrong price a BIG missing balancing item in the equation emerges.
This missing balancing item is goods, services or assets.
Who is going to forgive the missing balancing item of goods services or assets
Person X or Person Y?
October 13th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Great article! We definitely need a radical change in our thinking if we are ever going to achieve a more equitable and therefore stable society.
As a minimum we should stop negative gearing on existing homes and offering it only to people investing in newly built homes. The tax savings could be put into low cost public housing.
October 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
We all know what must be done!! 1.stop all taxpayer subsidies for housing investment (as steve has already discussed). Yes some problems will arise initially BUT then allow super funds to invest (as in Singapore) in owner occupied housing only.
2. Have Government agencies in the states provide more ’space’ in the existing quite large land holdings (e.g. strata existing dwellings, first floor additions-no land value)
3. Government investment in public housing which is means tested for those unable to afford it.We have the surpluses.
Everyone knows that we the poor taxpayer,who did not start the ‘fire’ must again ‘put it out’!!
4. Stop migration until we fix the housing situation.
October 13th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I agree with the views of Brett of homes4aussies.
The bail out solutions are like giving a drunk a drink or taking a compulsive gambler to the races or to the casino.
One reason why the system failed is due to the ever increasing amount of money made available to the system. When it became constipated and fell in a heap, who fixed it and how? The drunk demanding another drink.
How can anyone have any confidence in the fix?
The politicians are gullible and weak, the avaricious appetite must be satiated.
Until someone with some authority can see the light and replace the corrupted management system with a system that puts integrity and fairness at the top of the list of priorities, we will continue down the slide.
I seem to have read something written about 2000 years ago of similar problems.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Hi Steve
I have been hearing a bit about the $55 trillion dollars derivatives market, and how it may be next to collapse, over the past week.
Is this likely? If so, there will then be nothing anyone or any government can do to rescue the already damaged world economy will there. If the derivative market is likely collapse, do you have any thoughts on when it might happen?
Regards Monica
October 13th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Steven Shaw said: @Mike Stasse, wouldn’t having never have to pay your debt back be unfair to lenders and savers?
What makes you think they will ever be paid back? Just how do you propose to pay all these debts back? Not with everlasting growth I hope……?