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	<title>Comments on: Welcome aboard the FF Titanic</title>
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	<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/#utm_source=feed&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=feed</link>
	<description>Analysing the Global Debt Bubble</description>
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		<title>By: Laurence</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-16646</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-16646</guid>
		<description>If you are looking for this post, there it is. Welcome aboard the FF Titanic, all we saw was the tip of the iceberg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are looking for this post, there it is. Welcome aboard the FF Titanic, all we saw was the tip of the iceberg.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter W</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4761</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4761</guid>
		<description>Regarding my previous the AUD/ASX purchase power in USD has declined close to 45%. That&#039;s not an insignificant decline. If you calculate just these two inputs on fundamental intrinsic value the decline could be be FAR higher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding my previous the AUD/ASX purchase power in USD has declined close to 45%. That&#8217;s not an insignificant decline. If you calculate just these two inputs on fundamental intrinsic value the decline could be be FAR higher.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter W</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4760</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4760</guid>
		<description>If you wanted to be relatively less damaged than the aggregate of Australian you would be out of (short) AUD and out of (short) AUD assets. The evidence has partly unfolded. AUD 97 &gt; 79 ASX 6700 &gt; 4500</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you wanted to be relatively less damaged than the aggregate of Australian you would be out of (short) AUD and out of (short) AUD assets. The evidence has partly unfolded. AUD 97 &gt; 79 ASX 6700 &gt; 4500</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4759</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4759</guid>
		<description>NME, the RBA has always said this was going to end, with their attitude being that if you bought an overpriced asset, well tough luck (it is in some of their discussion papers) and that there responsibility was to maintain the financial system. The big problem is that they have misjudged the effect of the flows of money changing. They couldn&#039;t get it right in the early nineties, but that hasn&#039;t stopped them creating an even worse situation.

Emil, I think it is hard to predict what will happen, other than it wont be good. So much depends on what government, business and individuals do. It is easy for people to become so risk adverse that the economy virtually stops. For example instead of taking a holiday, people will stay home and save the money if they feel their jobs are at risk.

As to playing this crisis out
- avoid debt, especially on real estate
- cash held in major banks, splitting is a good idea
- if necessary, try to find recession proof employment
- last resort, buy a tent and find somewhere cheap to camp. Eating rice and vegetables is cheap and has health benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NME, the RBA has always said this was going to end, with their attitude being that if you bought an overpriced asset, well tough luck (it is in some of their discussion papers) and that there responsibility was to maintain the financial system. The big problem is that they have misjudged the effect of the flows of money changing. They couldn&#8217;t get it right in the early nineties, but that hasn&#8217;t stopped them creating an even worse situation.</p>
<p>Emil, I think it is hard to predict what will happen, other than it wont be good. So much depends on what government, business and individuals do. It is easy for people to become so risk adverse that the economy virtually stops. For example instead of taking a holiday, people will stay home and save the money if they feel their jobs are at risk.</p>
<p>As to playing this crisis out<br />
- avoid debt, especially on real estate<br />
- cash held in major banks, splitting is a good idea<br />
- if necessary, try to find recession proof employment<br />
- last resort, buy a tent and find somewhere cheap to camp. Eating rice and vegetables is cheap and has health benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4758</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4758</guid>
		<description>I have a question for you Steve.

I believe that deflation is the most likely outcome from this mess, but there are a lot of people who are talking up the chance of hyperinflation.

Their rationale is that the US (and the West in general - Australian being no different) is a net debtor nation. They have literally been loaned oodles of money but do not have the required capital means to pay it back. For this reason, when push comes to shove, the government will always go down the path of printing their way out of the situation: Here you are foreign creditors, take your money we have just printed for you - it is all worthless now but at least we don&#039;t have any debt. 

How realistic is this? Apparently the US treasury is about to issue an emergency T-bill sale to shore up the FED reserves. The FED has been bailing like crazy. It certainly looks like those printing presses are about to fire up and if the political machinery goes down the isolationist path, who cares if an old currency is worthless they may well just start with a new one.

My take has always been that if they tried this, yields on treasuries would spike and the market would not allow this to happen. The government would literally have to put dollars in the hands of people to go pay off their debt (stimulus checks of $100K per person anyone?). Also, banks would not want to see hyperinflation - if debts are too easy to pay back, their right to your future earnings just became severely diminished on a relative scale. However, a lot of them are fighting for their survival at the moment - perhaps they would prefer the hyperinflation than their death. Didn&#039;t Bernanke say he would drop money from helicopters under this scenario?

I know that this is simplifying things and some of this sounds a little crazy, but it does worry me. I have personally positioned myself for the deflationary scenario with some slight hedges for the hyper inflationary route but I would love to know what thoughts Steve Keen (or anyone else) has on how this whole mess is going to play out, because it is definitely going to play out one way or the other. How are others planning to play this crisis out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question for you Steve.</p>
<p>I believe that deflation is the most likely outcome from this mess, but there are a lot of people who are talking up the chance of hyperinflation.</p>
<p>Their rationale is that the US (and the West in general &#8211; Australian being no different) is a net debtor nation. They have literally been loaned oodles of money but do not have the required capital means to pay it back. For this reason, when push comes to shove, the government will always go down the path of printing their way out of the situation: Here you are foreign creditors, take your money we have just printed for you &#8211; it is all worthless now but at least we don&#8217;t have any debt. </p>
<p>How realistic is this? Apparently the US treasury is about to issue an emergency T-bill sale to shore up the FED reserves. The FED has been bailing like crazy. It certainly looks like those printing presses are about to fire up and if the political machinery goes down the isolationist path, who cares if an old currency is worthless they may well just start with a new one.</p>
<p>My take has always been that if they tried this, yields on treasuries would spike and the market would not allow this to happen. The government would literally have to put dollars in the hands of people to go pay off their debt (stimulus checks of $100K per person anyone?). Also, banks would not want to see hyperinflation &#8211; if debts are too easy to pay back, their right to your future earnings just became severely diminished on a relative scale. However, a lot of them are fighting for their survival at the moment &#8211; perhaps they would prefer the hyperinflation than their death. Didn&#8217;t Bernanke say he would drop money from helicopters under this scenario?</p>
<p>I know that this is simplifying things and some of this sounds a little crazy, but it does worry me. I have personally positioned myself for the deflationary scenario with some slight hedges for the hyper inflationary route but I would love to know what thoughts Steve Keen (or anyone else) has on how this whole mess is going to play out, because it is definitely going to play out one way or the other. How are others planning to play this crisis out?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4757</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4757</guid>
		<description>The big worry is cds seem to have been written between consenting adults with little regard for consequences.  Many are entirely private agreements between counter-parties and have not been subject to any standards, regulation or any clearing house function.  Now that the great unwinding has commenced there is no place for the counter-parties to go to settle up, except court probably.  What a mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big worry is cds seem to have been written between consenting adults with little regard for consequences.  Many are entirely private agreements between counter-parties and have not been subject to any standards, regulation or any clearing house function.  Now that the great unwinding has commenced there is no place for the counter-parties to go to settle up, except court probably.  What a mess.</p>
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		<title>By: BrightSpark</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4756</link>
		<dc:creator>BrightSpark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4756</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that CDS,s should not be allowed (there should be laws to make them unenforceable).This because they create dangerous feedback by encouraging slack business decisions (don&#039;t worry if it fails we are insured). The risk would be continually increasing until .......

I seems to me that a CDS on a large company is like betting on the end of the world - if you win the bet you and the issuer won&#039;t be there to collect and pay. You just made a charity donation to AIG or whoever. Donations to the Salvation Army would be better spent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that CDS,s should not be allowed (there should be laws to make them unenforceable).This because they create dangerous feedback by encouraging slack business decisions (don&#8217;t worry if it fails we are insured). The risk would be continually increasing until &#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>I seems to me that a CDS on a large company is like betting on the end of the world &#8211; if you win the bet you and the issuer won&#8217;t be there to collect and pay. You just made a charity donation to AIG or whoever. Donations to the Salvation Army would be better spent.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4753</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4753</guid>
		<description>AIG is everywhere in the financial system, and that is the reason behind the furious bailing action.  US Treasury has $40billion of nice new Tbills ready for purchase.  Given the recent trends in the TIC data, its doubtful that buyers are going to show up.
A large money market fund in the US has copped huge losses and is redeeming at under $1.  This is never supposed to happen with safe money market funds.  The loss was caused by the fund holding large wads of Lehman debt securities which are now worthless.  Imagine if this same money market fund insured the Lehman debt with AIG CDS ?
I note Macquarie Bank was down 22% yesterday, and opened another 17% down today.  Anyone in the market for a millionaires factory ?  Going cheap(er).
Options rollover day in the US this week could be a little bit tense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AIG is everywhere in the financial system, and that is the reason behind the furious bailing action.  US Treasury has $40billion of nice new Tbills ready for purchase.  Given the recent trends in the TIC data, its doubtful that buyers are going to show up.<br />
A large money market fund in the US has copped huge losses and is redeeming at under $1.  This is never supposed to happen with safe money market funds.  The loss was caused by the fund holding large wads of Lehman debt securities which are now worthless.  Imagine if this same money market fund insured the Lehman debt with AIG CDS ?<br />
I note Macquarie Bank was down 22% yesterday, and opened another 17% down today.  Anyone in the market for a millionaires factory ?  Going cheap(er).<br />
Options rollover day in the US this week could be a little bit tense.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4751</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4751</guid>
		<description>NME, 

He must have started reading this blog!

Steve Keen is spot on - Glenn Stevens is now calling for debt deflation. It&#039;s coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NME, </p>
<p>He must have started reading this blog!</p>
<p>Steve Keen is spot on &#8211; Glenn Stevens is now calling for debt deflation. It&#8217;s coming.</p>
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		<title>By: mikesblack</title>
		<link>http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/09/17/welcome-aboard-the-ff-titanic/comment-page-1/#comment-4750</link>
		<dc:creator>mikesblack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/?p=108#comment-4750</guid>
		<description>Can we really forecast with any probability beyond chance how this crisis will turn out? From my understanding about complex systems there are too many unforeseen variables ( &quot;Black Swans&quot;) that hit the system and generate changes that generally do not have a linear trajectory. Can anyone say that there comes a time when the variables are so extraordinary, as we have today, that complex systems revert closer to a linear model and as a result, forecasting can be done with high certainty? If that is true, wouldn&#039;t the market reflect that sentiment, or are we to assume the market participants collectively are in denial about our short or mid term future? 

 I guess what I wonder about is if those  who review and analyze these markets look at data in a way that attempt to give support to his or her bias? Perhaps we are really at a stage where &quot;doom and gloom&quot; is a foregone conclusion, but are we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we really forecast with any probability beyond chance how this crisis will turn out? From my understanding about complex systems there are too many unforeseen variables ( &#8220;Black Swans&#8221;) that hit the system and generate changes that generally do not have a linear trajectory. Can anyone say that there comes a time when the variables are so extraordinary, as we have today, that complex systems revert closer to a linear model and as a result, forecasting can be done with high certainty? If that is true, wouldn&#8217;t the market reflect that sentiment, or are we to assume the market participants collectively are in denial about our short or mid term future? </p>
<p> I guess what I wonder about is if those  who review and analyze these markets look at data in a way that attempt to give support to his or her bias? Perhaps we are really at a stage where &#8220;doom and gloom&#8221; is a foregone conclusion, but are we?</p>
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